Latest posts for the topic "Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to"

Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:44:09 GMT

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me :), I've just got back from my 1st trip to Whistler (how awesome?!!!) and my introduction to Back Country skiing was in so many ways a delight and in others a nightmare.

I'm not an expert skier by any means but I really don't think the fatigue my feet feel after 3 hours is all down to my technique.

I say this because when I 1st started skiing, ski boots (rentals) were comfy enough to leave done up on the chair lifts etc and I used to ski all day.

It all started when I was treated to a pair of boots for my Birthday last year, think that was my 2nd season, boots were from snow and rock, tried on some boots and after much faffing decided on a pair of Fischer, also got a foot bed made up.

1st run down was so uncomfortable I had to take the foot beds out on piste. Stuck with the boots minus foot bed, last week, at best they were bearable but my feet would ache after a few hours.

I tried to book a recommended boot fitter while in Whistler but that didn't pan out.

I just wanted to know if anyone knew of any really good boot fitters in the UK?

My snow and rock experience has left me sore :(

Cheers T1b

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:48:13 GMT

Look up cem or swingbeep on this forum and have a chat/pm with them they are just a couple of boot gurus here!!
Theres no way they should hurt like that and they dont need to...

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:52:25 GMT

Thank you Scapula! Alarm bells should have been ringing from the off as the rental boots I've used in the past have been absolutely fine.

Cheers :)

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:28:23 GMT

In addition to finding a good boot fitter, you should also do as much research as possible. The more you understand about how a boot should feel and what you want from a boot, the more likely you are to get a good fit. You should also try to use those boots a few times before going on a big trip.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:32:22 GMT

How stiff are your boots? "Fatigue" is a bit vague description. My feet used to be killing me off-piste because the boots were too stiff, it was tiring to the point that I would start struggling to turn the skis by the end of the day. So I had them softened last Saturday and had first Monday since January that my tendons were not in any sort of pain, and I skied for 6.5 hours on Sunday. You really should see a bootfitter wherever you are going on your next ski trip. Or, in case you get new boots in UK, make sure there is some sort of warranty on the fit etc, and go on a dry slope to check them out. If stiffness is the issue but overall fit is OK, you won't need new boots, a good bootfitter should be able to soften the boots some. But make sure you see a real bootfitter, not some guy that can take measurements of your feet and cut the footbed, there can be much more to a well-fitting boot than have a customised footbed.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:48:24 GMT

Your boots may be fine, but the experience can be ruined by a poorly made footbed. My boots get fitted by J2skier cem at:

http://www.solutions4feet.com/

He's away, doing bootfitting stuff at the British Champs this week AFAIR, so there might be a delay in responding if you mail him today.

If you want resort based help, then Jules at:

http://www.thebootroom.fr/eng/Home.html

in Chamonix.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:05:57 GMT

Hi all,

Thank you for all the replies, I'll give you a bit more info, the fatigue is coming from the arch of the foot, there is no additional cushioning in the boot, no insole in the insert, there is a foot bed at the bottom of the boot (previously I took it out).

The problem has been that with an insole the top of my foot got compressed inside the boot, so think of the heel on an insole being about 4 - 5mm, this would be enough that with the bindings set quite loose the top of my foot would be compressed. so once you tighten it to the point where you can safely ski off piste it's crushing almost.

I did get an insole while in Whistler but had to take it out as it was crushingly tight, too give you an idea, when I 1st got these boots I had to get thinner socks as my "Rental Boot" thick socks were too big for them.

On hire boots I never had these issues, hence my concern. Originally I was told they need "breaking in" but 4 Ski trips later it's got to the point where they take a fair bit of the joy out of skiing for me, I can't go over 4 hours in them at the mo :(

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:39:35 GMT

I reteiterate the advice that Bandit and others give in relation to CEM.

However, in view of the time aspect, I wonder if you have considered that you may have developed Plantar fasciitis. This can suddenly occur. It is likely if you have developed PF, that you would feel it at other times. If this is the case, the use of Orthotics in the ski boot will eliminate the pain.

If PF is not the culprit, it does soumd like a badly fitted boot. The first port of call should be the supplier. When you explain that you did not have issues with a rental boot, the supplier might feel that his fitting ought to be at least as good.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:59:55 GMT

Getting ski boots to fit properly can in involve a far bit of "faffing" a couple of further visits to the shop for tweaking are often necessary. Too tight is better than too loose as a boot can always be made a bit bigger by either grinding a bit more space out or heating and stretching the plastic. As they are guaranteed to fit http://www.snowandrock.com/terms-and-conditions/content/fcp-content I would take them back to S&R.

As far as I know there are only two boot fitters in the UK (considering the size of the market this compares very favourably with the rest of Europe) who have the expertise and equipment to tackle almost any boot fitting problem Solutions 4 Feet in Bicester as mentioned by Bandit and Profeet in London http://www.profeet.co.uk/skiing/1d-analysis/

Thanks for the compliment Scapula but sadly I'm just an ordinary skier who is difficult to fit, mainly because the design work for ski boots is carried out at size 26/26.5 (there are no true half sizes) and I take a size 23.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:56:02 GMT

the insoles can be made thinner, if this is the issue. Some boots are low profile, so if your instep is high you'll have problems, especially if you put the footbed in. It can be OK-ish in the store, but once you click the skis on and start moving the pain will kick in as you will be leaning more forward and putting even more pressure on your insteps. my friend had this with a pair of Lange boots, she said the only way her feet were not in agony was when she was consciously putting herself into a backseat position to relieve the pressure. but she fixed it now. So don't be in a rush to change boots, see first with a bootfitter what can be done to help your issue.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:44:57 GMT

Bicester isn't that far away, so I'll go see them, Thanks for all the info :) Alas the problem with going back to S&R is that the receipt has long gone :(

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:00:42 GMT

I developed terrible back problems some years after I first went skiing and just couldn't work out what the problem was. I went to the sports injury unit attached to Snow+Rock in Chertsey and they did a great job. It turned out that a combination of one femur shorter than the other, one foot smaller then the other and a curved spine plus asymmetric back muscles all contributed. All I needed was a made-to-measure insole for the smaller/shorter foot and that sorted it. I'm not saying yours is the same issue but you may need professional analysis to diagnose what's wrong. Straight boot retailers/fitters, no matter how experienced, may not be able to diagnose the root cause.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:24:00 GMT

I would be a touch circumspect with Profeet. I went that route 4 years ago but after one season the boots were excruciating. Went to see a chap called Keith in Ski Warehouse in Morzine, supposedly another one of the boot gurus. He was away but his equally knowledgeable wife(?) said Profeet are a pain in the nuts and more often than not dont know what they are talking about. All the gear, no idea was the view. They had had a girl in with fresh Profeet boots who was in tears after 3 hours on the slopes. Keith was so shocked at the poor fitting they had done, he not only helped her write a letter of complaint to get her money back but encouraged her to claim damages for her feet.
Oh yes - and my boots. Well apparently you should have a new foot tray each season as your feet change shape, even when you are old as me. Trouble is, Profeet had glued the tray to the bespoke inner boot, and had then put a cheapo plastic wedge under ankle between inner boot and outer shell. Shoddy to say the least.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:58:44 GMT

DerekAngel wrote:I would be a touch circumspect with Profeet. I went that route 4 years ago but after one season the boots were excruciating.

It's quite possible to wear out a pair of boots in a season. What did you do, 16, maybe 20 weeks in them? Did you contact Profeet to gain redress? They do have a fit warranty.

Profeet are one of the founder members of British Ski Bootfitters Assoc:

http://www.skibootpro.co.uk/

There are other J2skiers who are also professional members.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:07:36 GMT

All sounds a bit far fetched for me Delboy, if you have such a big problem you should go talk to Hamish yourself! I'm sure he would be more than happy to listen to your interesting and factual point of view.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:38:49 GMT

bandit wrote:It's quite possible to wear out a pair of boots in a season. What did you do, 16, maybe 20 weeks in them? Did you contact Profeet to gain redress? They do have a fit warranty.

Actually no - I did 1 week in them (!!). I am average Joe Punter going for a week a season. After so many years suffering in hire boots, someone pointed me towards Profeet and I was prepared to throw money at a solution (anything to make skiing a buzz without the agony). It was when I next went skiing that the boots caused so much grief. I did not know I was meant to check and change foot trays each season (Profeet never told me to do so and the fact they glued the trays in suggests it was not forgetfulness).

I am indeed going to go back to Profeet: if they are as professional as you suggest, I would expect some serious grovelling and redress and will gladly withdraw any inferences I have made here if they "step up to the plate", as it were.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:15:04 GMT

I hope you get some good news from Profeet :D

And, if anyone else is thinking of buying boots etc. from them they have a sale on now:

http://www.profeet.co.uk/news/2011/03/25/ski-sale-now-on!

Ally

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:43:29 GMT

Another possibility is that the boot was subjected to excessive heat (>70oC) which welded the insole to the inner boot, it wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

The "cheapo plastic wedge" was presumably a heel lift, they are usually made of either polypropylene, hard EVA foam or cork all of which are standard boot fitting materials.

I've been using custom insoles for about 20 years and have never felt the need, nor have I been told to have them checked annually. If your body undergoes a physical change i.e. weight gain / loss then you might need to have new insole made or your boots refitted.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Wed, 6 Apr 2011 18:07:38 GMT

it always intrigues me when people complain about shops and boots on forums..... all very difficult to say what is right or wrong with the boots that the complainant has but there is probably a reason for everything that has been done to them... footbeds don't get glued in, but if the liner is heated on a boot drier they can stick to the base, the foam, or plastic wedge below the ankle is probably to do with some limitation of ankle joint motion so needs to be there. now all this is without seeing the boots or the feet.

often times customers come to people such as myself or profeet because they have tried all the "regular" options without success, sometimes there is unconventional stuff done, but it is normally done for a reason, mostly because the conventional stuff hasn't worked, now sometimes this is due to a salesman not knowing his job, sometimes it is down to biomechanical issues that the skier has, these are issues that no boot fitter can solve...if your ankle does not bend i cannot make it bend for you, i can make the cuff of your boot more upright, or raise your heel to try and reduce the angles inside the boot then fill the gaps under your foot,I can even give you some stretches to do, but if it is fixed it is fixed and sometimes this causes pain, if stretches are required and you don't feel the need to do them, again i am unable to control this..... if there is a problem with a boot i would like to think my customers can come and talk to me without the need for them to shout about their problem on a public forum before i have had the opertunity to put it right.... there are two sides to every boot fit, that of the customer and that of the fitter, fitting ski boots is an ongoing two way process which requires feedback from the customer to the fitter in order to establish what is working and what is not, when that feedback loop is lost then the fitting becomes based on the experience of the fitter alone (probably the most important part) but without the feedback of the client the fitter does not know if the theory is working in practice.

this post is not a defence of anyone good or bad, although it annoys me when shops bad mouth each other especially as both mentioned are reputable shops with great fitters running them (if indeed this is what was said and not just an embelishment) i just feel that sometimes the fitter seems to get the brunt of the abuse, maybe some of this is due, but maybe the skier also needs to take responsibility for their own body and fitness, I for one like to explain why a boot will hurt to my clients if i feel that i am not going to give them pain free skiing, it is all about managing expectaions and giving the consumer the best that is available to them, now for some people this may be a reduction in pain of as little as 50% or maybe as much as 90% and for others it is absolute comfort and performance...there is a balance out there, but our bodies play a lot more of a part in that balance than you can imagine

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Thu, 7 Apr 2011 13:30:25 GMT

CEM - Your post covers boot fitting perfectly in terms of an ongoing process, but I think the frustrating part when buying from a larger chain is the lack of consistency of perhaps being able to consult with the same person each time. With skiiers like myself, I go once maybe twice a year and want to enjoy my days there and having problems with the boots tarnishes the experience slightly, but obviously not enough to not enjoy the days and want to keep going back.

I am not nieve enough to expect rigid ski boots to be entirely comfortable on my feet 7 hours a day but some guidence to how tight they might feel, how tight they should be on the buckles etc. for the fit of my feet, level of skiing and conditions would help.

I think what you offer over the chain stores for boot fitting is the consistancy of speaking to the same person about the boots and your experiences of boots either yourself or consulting with many different levels of skiier that you fit boots for.

Having had 6 trips to a well know chain, seeing 6 diffrent boot fitters, and have had the boots replaced 3 times telling me they are the wrong ones for size and flex, got footbeds made, had then redone and then back a further couple of times trying to make the current pair more bareable, I'm still not there yet as the first hour or 2 of each day of this years trip was unbareable at times and time to consult someone like you, which is your point in your post.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Fri, 8 Apr 2011 08:52:59 GMT

Reading all this fills me with a lot of comfort, as either I have got "normal" feet or my boots actually do fit me perfectly. It must be annoying and painful for those people who cannot get boots to fit properly.

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Fri, 8 Apr 2011 09:27:02 GMT

Tony,

you are lucky.....

the single biggest problem we see as boot fitters is a lack of available motion at the ankle joint, can be caused by a tight calf muscle can be cause by other problems, but it is the biggest cause of pain, there are things that can be done to minimise this pain, often simple strethes will have a dramatic effect...the problem comes when the customer feels that the stretches are not really exciting to do and doesn't do them..... we know the ski boots work, it is YOUR body that doesn't always work with them

Re:Ski boots - A pain that I no longer want to be used to

Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:07:25 GMT

cem wrote:
the single biggest problem we see as boot fitters is a lack of available motion at the ankle joint, can be caused by a tight calf muscle can be cause by other problems, but it is the biggest cause of pain, .....
the problem comes when the customer feels that the stretches are not really exciting to do and doesn't do them.....

Point well made Cem - it is so much easier to look for a technical solution, ie: adjust or buy new boots, than work holistically on all the elements that make up an enjoyable and pain free days skiing.
My biggest break through came after about 6 years of holiday skiing after leaving the Alps (lived and worked there for years) when my old, stiff, boots really were hurting and my old, tough, fast, style of skiing was no longer viable.
New softer boots (Technica - still a lovely fit)and a lesson to get my head around a more relaxed skiing style set me up for many years enjoyable ski holidays.
And any pain I get now is self inflicted - trying to outdo a fit 16yo for example!
:oops: