Latest posts for the topic "ICE - how common?"

ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:42:31 GMT

Recently I've noticed a few references to ice on pistes. Am wondering if people can share their experiences.

What is the biggest 'patch' of ice you have encountered?
How often do you encounter ice?
Where have you had your worst experience?

For the purpose of this thread, ice is not hard snow. If it's not solid enough to smash up and put in to a Gin & Tonic then it's not ice.

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:43:42 GMT

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:56:04 GMT

How rude are you?! Carry on and there'll be a visit to the naughty step. :hunf:

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:16:37 GMT

Can it make you fall forward ... onto your face ?

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:18:26 GMT

Right Billip back on the naughty step. Hmm, didn't last long off it did you?!:P Mr W has gone to sleep so you're on your own.

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:24:27 GMT

This yr when i was in VT end of jan, we encountered quite alot. On one of the red runs off the glacier "col" this run was solid ice top to bottom. And im not talking white slippy icey snow. it was transparent and blue looking...

Ha i wondered why nobody was taking the chair up :oops:

Good job i was on new skis with good edges. :lol:

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:30:29 GMT

EmmaEvs wrote:Right Billip back on the naughty step. Hmm, didn't last long off it did you?!:P Mr W has gone to sleep so you're on your own.

Wot did I do ??

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:44:10 GMT

billip wrote:

EmmaEvs wrote:Right Billip back on the naughty step. Hmm, didn't last long off it did you?!:P Mr W has gone to sleep so you're on your own.

Wot did I do ??

You got told off, that's what you did. :shock:

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:27:42 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Emma, what a Dull topic ZZZZzzzzzzz

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:56:44 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Emma, what a Dull topic ZZZZzzzzzzz

I'll shove up on the step here Ian to squeeze you in.

Re:ICE - how common?

Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:56:45 GMT

On the Hahnemkamm, immediately after the race. Sheet ice all the way down to the bottom. Scary.

On the Tiger run at Glenshee. Not scary, but perplexing, like "where did that come from?"

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 03:43:15 GMT

Put me on the step. This really is dull.

"Oh look, theres some ice. I must remember to tell all the nice people on J2ski I skied on it...."
:roll:

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 08:10:58 GMT

Mr W and Mr H, this may surprise you but I'm not actually seeking your approval on topics I create. If you find it so boring you don't have to read it. Problem solved. :D

For those J2skiers who have taken the time to reply, and those who may be interested I'll explain why I started this thread. Personally I've only experienced it once, in Niederau, at a narrow point where a lot of traffic goes through. There is a very easy way to avoid it so it's not a problem. However, if I hit ice elsewhere and couldn't avoid it I might not manage so well. If there are any 'hot spots' identified through this thread I'd prefer to avoid them. If few people respond, then I'll assume that it's very rare and will relegate it from my considerations. Simples.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 08:29:26 GMT

Hot spots of ice around the world of winter sports.
You're actually serious?

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 08:41:23 GMT

Very common. If by 'hot spots' you mean specific resorts, no point telling as there is no avoiding it in the Alps unless you are lucky enough to hit a powder day. But I ski every weekend and some weekdays on top of it from end on Novemeber and had 2 powder days, but about 20 ice days with 10 days of "in between" conditions. But if you mean it in general, then translucent, "blue" ice can be found on glaciers, or on the spots that are sun traps during the day but once the sun goes down they re-freeze. Generally south facing slopes in the morning will be icy.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 08:52:05 GMT

I think that you answered your own question Mrs Evs. You immediately stop, take out a hammer, break off a few chunks and slip them into your gin and tonic!

Seriously, I would also like to know what the better skier suggests.

p.s. I liked your vid, and dont blame Mr Evs for where he points the camera. Its a man thing

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:01:06 GMT

Jog on Tony. You're insulting the people who have posted sensible responses. :evil:

To everyone else, thanks for your replies. It's not a joke, I am interested in hearing your views.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:09:33 GMT

http://www.j2ski.com/ski-chat-forum/posts/list/9810.page

lots of good stuff here!!

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:14:03 GMT

scapula wrote:http://www.j2ski.com/ski-chat-forum/posts/list/9810.page

lots of good stuff here!!

Yup, lots of good stuff there Scapula. Maybe I should have asked the question on that thread instead. It was mainly that one which got me wondering how frequent it is. Plus some others e.g. the blue run to resort thread where people have described specific runs which seem to be prone, causing problems for those not expecting it.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:38:26 GMT

I don't understand what you're aksing.
Do you want to know which spots to avoid in Niederau where there can be ice, or are you expecting people t actually give a list of runs in resorts which have a tendency to ice up, or do you want to learn how to ski on ice?

In the meantime, I'm just off for a short slow run.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 11:44:16 GMT

Emma,
I would say icy patches are very common. I think I've found at least one on every ski holiday I've been on.

The worst ones I've found have been on those narrow blue (road in the summer) overcrowded pistes on the bends. I've fallen over several times on those, and you can't see them coming.

When we were ski-ing on the glacier at Tignes over a year ago there was serious ice - even the international teams were falling over on it :lol:

It was real green/blue glacial ice.

Anyway, I've got to finish getting ready to go off and do more practical ice investigations (in Courchevel), so I'm sorry Emma but you'll have to handle Tony without my help :wink:

Ally

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:02:50 GMT

I went out for a walk to the pub in December. The weather had been really cold, and rain fell as snow and then froze. Much to my amazement, I came across patches of ice on my walk. It was quite dangerous. I guess its quite common in certain conditions.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:41:38 GMT

Tony - the clue is in the thread title. It's not complicated. I don't give a flying copulation whether you find the thread interesting, relevant or even understandable. Get off it unless you're going to post something useful. Thank you.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:49:22 GMT

EmmaEvs wrote: I don't give a flying copulation .

Love this 8)

As for the ice, anywhere that gets lots of skier traffic is prone to getting a glaze.

Snowboarders side slipping can make any pitch slippery.

Places that catch the sun, which encourages a bit of a melt and a refreeze also.

Cannon made snow can set like rock, it's like skiing tarmac, falling over not advisable :roll:

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 18:33:30 GMT

Tony_H wrote:I went out for a walk to the pub in December. The weather had been really called, and rain fell as snow and then froze. Much to my amazement, I came across patches of ice on my walk. It was quite dangerous. I guess its quite common in certain conditions.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 18:51:32 GMT

Dear Karma,

I can't wait to see what you have in store for these two lunks.

Please can you arrange for it to be filmed in HD and put on YouTube?

Cheers
Em

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 18:59:14 GMT

Here is some info regarding ice if your not too sure...... Lifted from some site.

Ice
In hard-packed snow it is essential your skis are fully tuned. The passage of skiers can scrape the soft snow from lower slopes - especially those served by artificial snow cannons - leaving large patches of ice.
Experienced skiers will manage to make their edges hold. For others, my best advice is not to turn on the ice at all, but to ski on to the powdered snow beyond.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:05:44 GMT

Hard packed snow is regularly mistaken for ice. Genuine ice is actually quite rare!
Go glacier skiing in August and you'll discover the difference!

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:27:27 GMT

That was the point of the thread Dorset Boy. With all the talk of ice, how to ski on it etc I wondered how much of it was 'proper' and how much just hard packed snow. Sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak. For me at my level of ability it makes hell of a difference. I can manage hard pack. If I were to encounter a whole piste of solid ice (as has been mentioned) I would be horrified. From the comments so far (although yours offers a different view), it seems I've been really lucky to date in not having to deal with proper ice to any real extent. My aim was to find out if this was just good fortune, or pretty much the norm.

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:06:05 GMT

When I spent my seasons out in the alps, 'punters' would regularly complain about icy slopes and icy patches. However they were mistaken about 98% of the time, and were actually moaning about very hard pack that is difficult to get an edge on.

Best to ski over such patches (and those rare icy ones)and turn on the softer stuff the other side.

The largest patch of genuine ice I've seen in the mountains was in Flaine in January where there was clear a leak in some pipework and water was freezing across the slope - that you could have put in your G&T!

Our village was also an ice rink over christmas!

Re:ICE - how common?

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 23:02:06 GMT

bandit wrote:

As for the ice, anywhere that gets lots of skier traffic is prone to getting a glaze.

Snowboarders side slipping can make any pitch slippery.

Places that catch the sun, which encourages a bit of a melt and a refreeze also.

Cannon made snow can set like rock, it's like skiing tarmac, falling over not advisable :roll:

Theres the patronising answer this thread warranted. Complete with the warning about falling over.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:02:38 GMT

If you don't like the thread stop posting on it. How dare you repeatedly post retarded comments in order to steamroll any conversation that other J2skiers may be able to have. Starting a thread on here shouldn't have to pass your imaginary standards before it's allowed to happen without you chipping in constantly. Do you realise that in this single thread alone you've probably deterred many less well known J2skiers from posting legitimate questions on this forum in case you deem them insignificant and behave like a complete penis?

It's bang out of order. Get you head out of your backside and go back to your bobble hats. Clearly in your world that's far more important than learning about piste conditions and hazards. Close the door on your way out.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:12:09 GMT

Tony_H wrote:
Theres the patronising answer this thread warranted. Complete with the warning about falling over.

I did not write it with the intention of being patronising. I wrote it with the intention of providing examples of why pistes get icy patches regardless of the weather.

As for this:

Complete with the warning about falling over.

A Swiss Romande Newspaper recently quoted a Sion Hospital A&E statement that this season they were seeing skier injuries more like traffic accidents, and in particular motorcycle accidents.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:14:25 GMT

EmmaEvs wrote:If you don't like the thread stop posting on it. How dare you repeatedly post retarded comments in order to steamroll any conversation that other J2skiers may be able to have. Starting a thread on here shouldn't have to pass your imaginary standards before it's allowed to happen without you chipping in constantly. Do you realise that in this single thread alone you've probably deterred many less well known J2skiers from posting legitimate questions on this forum in case you deem them insignificant and behave like a complete penis?

It's bang out of order. Get you head out of your backside and go back to your bobble hats. Clearly in your world that's far more important than learning about piste conditions and hazards. Close the door on your way out.

Hear, hear. I think we need to decide if this is a place for Tony to headline his views, add unconstructive criticism, add rolling eyes smilies regularly below the posts of others or a place where everyone can discuss whatever interests them about skiing. The old saying 'If you've got nothing nice (or constructive) to say' really comes into its own on this thread.

I've moderated online forums myself and know that hounding people with mockery of their posts does put members off. With a little consideration things can be worded much better for all concerned. Banter has it's place, constant posting on a thread to put it down does not.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:22:06 GMT

Mekka wrote:

EmmaEvs wrote:If you don't like the thread stop posting on it. How dare you repeatedly post retarded comments in order to steamroll any conversation that other J2skiers may be able to have. Starting a thread on here shouldn't have to pass your imaginary standards before it's allowed to happen without you chipping in constantly. Do you realise that in this single thread alone you've probably deterred many less well known J2skiers from posting legitimate questions on this forum in case you deem them insignificant and behave like a complete penis?

It's bang out of order. Get you head out of your backside and go back to your bobble hats. Clearly in your world that's far more important than learning about piste conditions and hazards. Close the door on your way out.

Hear, hear. I think we need to decide if this is a place for Tony to headline his views, add unconstructive criticism, add rolling eyes smilies regularly below the posts of others or a place where everyone can discuss whatever interests them about skiing. The old saying 'If you've got nothing nice (or constructive) to say' really comes into its own on this thread.

I've moderated online forums myself and know that hounding people with mockery of their posts does put members off. With a little consideration things can be worded much better for all concerned. Banter has it's place, constant posting on a thread to put it down does not.

I will add my support to both the above.

I've watched the nicest people virtually hounded off the forum. Good on you having the guts to say it!

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:45:03 GMT

I've certainly learned quite a bit from reading this thread. As a relatively new skier, I have been in groups with more experiencded people than me complaining about how "icy" the pistes were, when I thought to myself "seems more like hard packed snow to me. But they're more experienced, so they must be right". Now after reading this, it seems that the hard-packed surface is far more common than true ice, and, like one or two others, the times I have encountered real ice are very few and far between ... but memorable ! If I've seen a patch coming up I've tended to "freeze" (pun intended) and just hope to glide over it intact without any lateral movement or change in my body posture - waiting for the nice white stuff to re-appear in a few metres.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:54:09 GMT

Billip I'm guilty of using the word ice when I should say hard packed snow. I know the difference, it's just pure laziness on my part. 'Hard packed snow' takes longer to say. :lol:

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:11:25 GMT

Top rant EmmsEvsmmEmEvs (another vowel please Carol), GPWM. 8)

All further contributions to this Topic to be on-topic please (or they'll be vaped).

Ice can easily catch out the un-wary (or even the wary for that matter). Given the cold and dry conditions that have prevailed in a number of European resorts (particularly France and the Western half of The Alps), it's certainly something worth learning about.

The absolute worst ice I've ever encountered was in Serre Chevalier; top half of the mountain was great skiing but the cannons on the lowest sections of the Blues into Monetier had done a good job of creating the hardest boiler-plate ice we'd seen away from the blue of a glacier. Our entire group (6 of us I think) went down and slid quite some way - once up we gave up on the piste and took to the trees instead; it was way safer (more fun too).

So definitely approach cannoned snow with caution until you know what it's like!

And if you find yourself on it, relax, stay balanced and focus on the next patch of grippy snow you can see.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:10:16 GMT

If we are giving examples of the worst ice we have encountered, mine was in St Anton. A long blue (17?) which ran down to Alpe Rauz and was a continuation of a red from Schindler Spitz. The conditions while we were there were pretty decent and the pistes were not particularly hard packed, so we were carving some god turns. However, half way down the blue, theres a valley which opens up and blows a gale across it, and this had served to whip all surface snow off it and leave the piste like a sheet of glass. First time down, none of the 8 in our group saw or expected it, and it felt just like hitting ice at speed in a car - no control and something of a shock!
We found the best thing to do was to maintain our speed over it (100m or so) and then hit the brakes once we had hit the softer piste surface the other side.
It was the shock of hitting it rather than anything that caused the problem.

[Off Topic stuff removed - use PMs please - Adders]

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:06:38 GMT

[Off Topic stuff removed - use PMs please - Adders]

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:11:11 GMT

Interesting thread, mostly for good reasons.

I'm certainly interested to hear what people have to say concerning varying conditions.

I'm pretty inexperienced having only skied freshly pisted new snow under blue skies up until last year.

Next trip consisted of some of that but also slushy snow, rippled concrete snow, and some visibility such that on the chair lifts you couldn't see one support tower from the next.

I'm back to Les Gets in a couple of weeks and so far reports are of negligible new snow in weeks and hard packed snow on the runs. Hence anything I can soak up from here means I could be better prepared when I get there. (Especially after a minor head injury in the party last time out in good snow.)

So although the odd old hand may find this topic less than captivating it is certainly of interest to others so cheers Emma. :thumbup:

On the banter topic I'm new here but have moderated another forum. We had huge amounts of pretty aggressive but tongue in cheek banter and felt that the overall freedom stopped real flair ups of aggro. However as the newbie it is hard to tell the difference between long standing in-jokes, banter, minor irritation and full on aggro. This thread seemed to cover all of them in a couple of posts!

I was surprised partly as so far everything I've read on J2Ski seemed fun or constructive but also because this topic deals with safety. When people are looking out for their safety and those they ski with why would you mess with that?

Skiers generally being a thick skinned lot though I hope it wouldn't ultimately put anyone off asking what others may perceive as daft questions though.

Cheers all,

Owen.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:17:18 GMT

rippled concrete snow

Owen, thanks for your input.

I've never heard of this type of snow... can you enlighten me?! I'm intrigued. :lol:

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:27:29 GMT

EmmaEvs wrote:

rippled concrete snow

Owen, thanks for your input.

I've never heard of this type of snow... can you enlighten me?! I'm intrigued. :lol:

Nasty bloody stuff I tell you!

Imagine a smooth innocent bit of piste, flat as you like but with the odd bit of chopped track from previous skiers.

Now imagine those tracks have morphed into solid granite for no apparent reason so any reasonable attempt to nonchalantly glide over them sends ones skis clattering into each other and much pointing and laughing from onlookers as said skier wipes out on the easiest bit of the hill... :oops:

As I say, nasty devious stuff, probably banned in the Geneva convention somewhere.

Owen.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:34:57 GMT

Sorry. I have to admit to chuckling at that! Well it's a new one on me. Never heard of rippled concrete snow before. It seems the demon ice has discovered a way of evolving into a new and even more cunning enemy :lol:

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:43:17 GMT

Glad to be of service...

Perhaps if you'd glare at this demon for a while he'd melt?

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:45:06 GMT

[Off Topic stuff removed - use PMs please - Adders]

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:14:08 GMT

Marksman wrote:Perhaps if you'd glare at this demon for a while he'd melt?

I do believe you've inadvertently stumbled upon a solution. Chef's blowtorches. Hit a patch of ice. Get to work with the blowtorch, comb it over with a miniature rake. Job's a good 'un. Obviously it'll be too late for the first person who encountered the ice, but the satisfaction of foiling the demon's evil plan would be pretty good.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:46:45 GMT

Good intentions Emma, like your style. :thumbup:

Personally I'd rather return with a tank and gently massage the offending snow lump-let back into the mountain.

I tried to melt ice with an oxyacetalyne torch once and was amazed at how much energy it took.

Owen.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:52:55 GMT

Marksman wrote:I tried to melt ice with an oxyacetalyne torch once and was amazed at how much energy it took.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Funny for so many reasons!

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:27 GMT

Has anyone skied on what I call ice marbles, it was in Cortina some years ago on a north facing piste.

At the top it was OK but as you went down it got worse & extremely difficult to ski on, it looked like the surface snow had rolled into small balls & frozen solid so the whole surface of the run was covered in what looked like white marbles.

Haven't seen it before or since & never wish to see it again, only tip I can give is to avoid it & its the worse piste condition I have experienced in my 16 trips.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:39:54 GMT

Marbles - yep, think this happens when spring slush freezes at the end of the day.
Skied on this a few times, on low slopes that get the morning sun and then go into shade later in the day.
Sometimes called sugar snow - coz it's like big grains of sugar.
Is this what you mean brooksy?

Re:ICE - how common?

Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:18:14 GMT

OldAndy wrote:Marbles - yep, think this happens when spring slush freezes at the end of the day.
Skied on this a few times, on low slopes that get the morning sun and then go into shade later in the day.
Sometimes called sugar snow - coz it's like big grains of sugar.
Is this what you mean brooksy?

Sounds a bit like it these balls of ice were around 1inch diameter
I compare it the stone size of ballast you put in concrete, the skis were rolling on them instead of sliding, basically no control.
There were 4 of us doing this run, one fell quite badly but it was very difficult to get to him, we were the only ones on it so no body else to help.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:18:52 GMT

bandit wrote:

Snowboarders side slipping can make any pitch slippery.

I really missed out on the the old days before snowboarding. There was no ice, no moguls (except the ones that the mountain elves made at night for the amusement of skiers), the grooming lasted all day without getting skidded off, the powder was always untracked, no one was out of control, the sun was always shining, everyone was the right type,......... :wink:

Ice is produced by temperature, and humidity, not traffic. skiers sliding one side, then the other, or snowboarders side slipping will scrape the grooming off a patch of ice just the same.

Re:ICE - how common?

Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:34:25 GMT

Trencher wrote: I really missed out on the the old days before snowboarding. There was no ice, no moguls (except the ones that the mountain elves made at night for the amusement of skiers), the grooming lasted all day without getting skidded off, the powder was always untracked, no one was out of control, the sun was always shining, everyone was the right type,......... :wink:

Yep, that's how I remember it too. :mrgreen:

Re:ICE - how common?

Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:41:54 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:

Trencher wrote: I really missed out on the the old days before snowboarding. There was no ice, no moguls (except the ones that the mountain elves made at night for the amusement of skiers), the grooming lasted all day without getting skidded off, the powder was always untracked, no one was out of control, the sun was always shining, everyone was the right type,......... :wink:

Yep, that's how I remember it too. :mrgreen:

Ditto :D

Re:ICE - how common?

Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:17:36 GMT

You old timers.....

Re:ICE - how common?

Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:19:50 GMT

Tony_H wrote:You old timers.....

Kids of today, know nowt, still wet behind the ears )

Re:ICE - how common?

Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:20:18 GMT

I'm prepared to learn