small shushy turns when carving...

Hi,
Sorry, don't know the technical name for this, but I'm a bit confused about carving. I used to be quite a good parallel skier, had mastered the whole skis glued together no matter what (well, except moguls :)) thing, loved speeding down the piste, hurling recklessly over jumps (mainly failing to land) and then I stopped skiing regularly for about 9 years for various reasons. Started again last year and now i feel a bit lost - argh, carving! Actually, there's two parts to this question now I think about it:

A) last year, I think i had the wrong skis - long racer types, and B) I had lessons, but because Tignes had major snow dumps every day, we just did off piste - our one bit of on-piste tuition (in deep powder) was in carving (instructor's instruction was when you want to turn left, push your right hip towards the snow, when you want to go right, do the opposite - yes?). Anyway, this was fine, more or less, except when i attempted small high-speed turns (shushy turns :)) - HOW DOES IT WORK?!!! Does it work, in fact? or is it completely irrelevant to carving? Any advice very gratefully recieved! I'm off skiing again in March and had planned to have some lessons on moguls to conquer my fear, but I think I'd better get some in carving - and if anyone can tell me what skis to ask for (speed and carve), I'd be much obliged!

Thanks very much!


:roll:

What you were attempting, if I understand you correctly and have the terminology right (I might have both wrong!), is what's usually called a "short swing"? Swing turns used to be what beginners moved on to after the plough and/or stem turn and pretty much rely on your skis being quite flat to the snow and skidding at the end of each turn (and, yes, with legs glued together it used to be a proud moment when it was mastered!).

But it's not carving - and is probably close to impossible on a modern, shaped ski.

IMO you should leave the moguls for a year or two (whole books have been written on mogul skiing), rent some modern skis and take a few private lessons so an instructor can show you how to get the best of them. Then spend some time on the Blues to work on your carves - you'll love it and once you get it right you'll be amazed how much speed can be carried (and controlled) even on quite shallow gradients.

Powderhound

Powderhound as given excellent advice. Do not go into the moguls until you have mastered the basics.

Now for your first issue.

Competent skiers can ski all sorts of conditions and ADAPT their skiing to those conditions. Thus in powder skiing, there is no edging, there is no hard set turns. In powder you take the fall line and float over snow! Yes skis are together and NO you DO NOT sit back as most skiers think.

You stay neutral on the ski!


Now in groomed slopes or runs, that is where you can practice "carving"

I will not get micro-technical here but in essence, you are skiing from one ski edge to the other ski edge, with no windshield wiper turns. You know those two rubber pieces in your car. Just look back at your ski tracks, on a easy run. If you see two sharp lines you are on your way to effective skiing.
If you see two lines which disappear into a fan like mess, you are NOT skiing effectively. You have lost your edge control, You are skiing too fast and turning too quickly. The skis can not "carry" the speed or you are not keeping pressure on edges.

It is easier skiing on modern skis. Just take time to learn on easy runs.

All modern skis are good for "effective " skiing my favorites are; Atomic Metron, Rossi Z9, Atomic SL12.

Enjoy your holidays.

Pav - are you a ski instructor? You seem to be VERY knowledgeable about all things?

Iceman

Hi,
thanks very much for your replies - I think i might perhaps have been unclear? I'm not a 'just finished beginning' skier. I think the first guy who (kindly) replied thought that must be what I was saying, somehow, but thank you very much for taking the time to respond :) I am a competent parallel skier- last year when i hadn't been skiing for a few years (had about 9 years off) I took lessons and was in the top french ski school group, if that helps you know whereabouts I'm at - but the instructor basically pointed out I was old school style skiing and needed to learn carving, as I said.

The small turns i'm talking about are when you're faced with an icey narrow bumpy steep tree-confined piste, for example, and you have a couple of feet at the edge of the piste to play with of more powdery untouched snow, which is a much more attractive and safe option :) and you do small turns (edges, not flat...) - looks a little like when people are going down moguls properly, but not up and down of course - that kind of small turn! I hope that makes sense from my explanation now...

SOOOOO, my question is, does this translate to carving? How tight do carving skis turn? (I have a mental block on it!)

thanks for the info on skis too :) This year I'll have to get my head properly round carving - if there's any snow of course! cross fingers...

mrs u

mrs u wrote:

SOOOOO, my question is, does this translate to carving? How tight do carving skis turn? (I have a mental block on it!)

thanks for the info on skis too :) This year I'll have to get my head properly round carving - if there's any snow of course! cross fingers...

mrs u

The turns you're talking about are called short radius, and you can't carve them especially if you're going down a tight tree lined run, this is because most modern skis have a carve turn radius of 12-15m.

Modern skis do however turn in the same way that old skis do, i.e. with a combination of pressure control, pivotting and edging. The style is slightly different in that now you have your weight more neutral and also skis at about shoulder width apart. It is worth noting that the change from narrow to wider stance came not because of new shaped skis but because the narrow stance wasn't the most efficient (and also made you look like you were mincing). The only difference you'll find when doing these turns on modern skis is that the sidecut enables you to round off your turn after you have pivotted and edged, and gives a nice smooth turn shape.

There seems to be some sort of obsession with carving on this board, and a belief that if you're not carving then your are not skiing correctly. This is not true. Carving is only suitable for wide open pistes and where max speed is desired (e.g. GS race). The reality of modern skiing is that you don't usually get the chance to do pure carved turns on most pistes because of crowding, steepness and obstacles such as rocks, moguls and trees!