Carving

Hi All,

I know we've been over parts of this in other topics but i'm off skiing on Friday and wanted to summarise and ask a few questions.

1. Trencher and Pavelski have pointed out carving is possible on normal rental skis, however i have observed and i think heard Trencher say that he uses skis that are shorter than normal... is this optimum?

2. In most all of the videos i've seen poles are absent... are poles becoming extinct? Is it worth taking them?

3. When you carve i may or may not have heard it said that the skis bend and there's a recoil allowing turn-jump transition... is this a myth?

4. For a rank beginner what is the best way to start carved turns? I was planning on turning as normal but just putting more weight on the ski edges rather than the flat? as someone said 'inside big toe up, outside big toe down' .

Thanks guys, if i achieve it i'll try and appease Trencher and give the snow a little kiss while i'm leaning.... well at least touch it...

James,

Here's some input from me (fwiw).

1. Most rental skis these days are carvers. Yes, you can get extreme carvers (aka fun carvers) which have a more pronounced profile to them - and you may find that the boot sits higher on the ski to 'help' angle your skis during the turn.

a) Shorter skis are easier to turn and have a shorter turn radius.

b) Be *very* careful if taking fun carvers that your ski binding is not *too* high up. The extra force on the knees as a result of the high bindings has caused some unplesant knee accidents - and your insurance may be invalidated.

c) If you have fun carvers, you may be missing out on some of the other fun stuff - like high speed skiing (on carvers) is better with long skis. (180cm).

2. Poles are optional - but watch out for a white out. Without poles you'll be left with no sense of balance. *Always* take poles with you when it's a white out. You may find that poles to start with helps promote a better techniique. (You need to make sure that your weight is over your skis - not back - and poles forward helps you do this).

3. Wait 'till you've achieved 'sound' carving before trying to do the difficult stuff. You'll have enough trouble keeping the carve going all the way through a carve let alone managing to get it to stay 'on' all the time. (And it's easier to do with the fun carvers anyway).

4. The essential 'rule' in getting the skis to carve is to make sure that the whole ski length - paying particular attention to that part of the ski in front of the boot - is staying in contact with the snow. And that includes both skis. This is where the toe up/down rule comes into play. You're trying to ensure that you use both skis to carve. You'll know when you've 'hit the spot' because your skis will leave two parallel tracks in the snow behind you - and also - you'll feel a 'kick' about a third of the way through the turn as the skis take on a new 'bite' and you get thrown into warp drive (!!!)

Have a great time - and you'll love it when the carve kicks in...... and keep an eye out up the slope for somebody who's just going straight (and missing out on the fun!!!).

Sound advise from Meercat

I would just add afew things

Shorter ski are easier (around 148 would be good), But skiboards/snowskates with non releasable bindings are knee injuries waiting to happen.

Find a very gentle slope, just roll the ski onto thier edges and feel them turn. Incline the ski more to tighten the turns. At some point you have to learn to angulate. That is to keep your torso upright by bending at the hips and waist. This keeps your center of gravity over the skis as much as possible. Keep your knees bent.

When you carve turns, there is very little loss of speed. Stop and start again if you get going too fast. Eventualy you can control speed by tightening the turns (that takes a while). Do find space and watch out for others. If you are doing it right, you will leave railway tracks behind you.

You will find the right balance of presure between skis. If you presure the inside ski too early it will get a mind of it's own. It takes a while too get the feel so don't get frustrated. do other things as well.

Take time to practice other important skills like stopping quickly

I'm a great believer in guided discovery as a learning meathod, but a lesson or two won't hurt. Tell the school what you want to do and get as much feed back from the instructor as you can.

There's a lot more to carving. Most important is learning how to use vertical movement of your body's mass to apply downward pressure to the ski edges. That's a long discussion though.

Hope you have fun

Trencher

The above reply is excellent.

May I suggest the following;

1.All modern skis are carving skis. The difference in quality of "carve" is the skier not the ski! Yes some skis are easier to carve! due to its geometry. Smaller the radius of the ski (printed on skis the easier to turn)

2. As far as short skis, be careful too short ski might appear to make turns easy but most people "cheat" carve by doing body rotation. That is their shoulders and torso turn first, thus "forcing" the ski to turn after they have turned shoulder. A NO NO! Poor form and will result in back aches, sore thighs and forever plateau as beginner.

3. As suggested above take the time to learn the basics. That kick at end of turn is for next year! If you can set edge and turn ski ON EDGE that is enough.

4. As far as "high" bindings. all rental bindings are on a demo plate which is standard! Very few skiers use Racing plates.

5.Carving is another word to describe effective skiing in which you ski edge to edge with little "flat" skiing and NO skidding! It can be done with 205 cm skis as well as with 165 cm. However with 205 cm. skis you are carving at 25 m radius! With 165 cm skis you are carving at 13 m radius.

6. In skiing, poles are NOT optional since you need them on flat terrain, on travers sections and also for rythm. Yes, you do not have to use poles when you go fast and are effective however as beginner you need them!

7. Modern skiing does not involve "lifting" the skis, ever! You must keep ski on snow at all times! If ever your tips go up,,,,you are sitting back! Another NO NO!

8. Try not to think too much about technique. Enjoy yourself and focus on one aspect of skiing!

Hope this helps you!

Pavelski, I would love to get in to a discussion about poles, but will save that for another time.

I was intrigued by your advise to keep the skis on the snow. This is ofcourse conventional racing wisdom. That the energy used getting airborne, might have been better directed into the next turn for speed.
I also understand your concern about weight getting too far back.

But this is not racing. There is nothing so sweet as a big air transion. The power of the decambering skis, lofting you into the air, to land on the new edges. Is this wrong ?. Maybe that is what you were implying by "that kick at the end of the turn".

If it looks cool, it proberbly IS cool (not to mention fun).


So much of this sport is based on convention and racing. The one thing I've learned from many sports in recent years is "nothing is written in stone", so I question everything.


I know you are free thinker (from your post) and you have forgotten more than I'll ever know. This is just my opinion. :wink:

Trencher

Thanks Meercat, Trencher, Pavelski. I'll try and apply the techniques you mentioned.

Hopefully i'll get it and then be able to pull out before the edge of the piste!! Yes Yes Yes I'm Carving I'm Carving... THUD. :roll:

Perhaps I have given you a wrong impression. Although I did race and I am more of the ski gypsy.

My comments are geared by my audience. It is clear to me that you are an exceptional skier/rider so we could speak about; take off strategies, landing from 10 meter cliffs, vertical cornice two step turns and the famous "first turn" in the steeps. It would bore most of the skiers in this site.

Most beginners must learn basics before flying! It appears very easy until you try to do it. If you do not have the basics you will no doubt "injury" yourself!

Often I have male skiers asking me to teach them how to go in the moguls, but before I do I ski with them on the easy runs to see if they have mastered the very basics that are so important in the moguls. It is so easy to "cheat" on an easy flat run! When you ski the steeps, moguls every error is magnified 10 fold! All the cheating techniques are not relevant here!

That is why I do not discuss air, cliffs, powder, moguls skiing here!


That does not mean that it is not part of my "repetoire" of skiing options.

As a rule, if the tips of skis leaves the snow surface ( for beginners and even intermediates) it means you are sitting back!

Rare are the skiers that allow the tails to rise, but you do see this in moguls due to poor technique!

What I do is ski from the top of one mogul to another crest or top, without going into the valley ( where there is ice)! That means I must go a certain speed. That means I have to be perfectly balanced in the air, at my take off and landing! Not sure if most skiers on this site want to hear how to do this. You might, but you are far above most skiers in this site.

In conclusion, I believe while you ski that you always test the limits of your skis, test the limits of your ability. Always in a save context! I have picked up too many bodies ( with blue lips) to suggest that all skiers attempt some air when they are having problems with; skidding, hands, backs, etc...

Let me just finish by saying something that I suspect only you will understand, yes I know how birds feel when they fly!

Pavelski

Sorry to confuse. I was using big air as as a relative term. I didn't actually mean BIG AIR, rather just letting the rebound take the skis off the snow during the transition between carves.

Real BIG AIR scares me.

Trencher