J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by Meercat

On the 'to plough or not to plough' question. I must say there's one time in particular that I wish people would plough (in a straight line). Going down a path. At end-of-day - when you have a slow person turning left and right across the path when they could be (at least some of the time) sticking to the inside with a plough when they need to cut off speed - would be a great help to all the people bottlenecking behind, who, in addition, all start parallel turning left to right and getting in eachother's way.

That's when I use a straight line plough - it signals to people behind that you're not about to change direction (or at least not very quickly). Also, when approaching the end of a run (especially in the area of a lift entrance) if you plough to slow down you do not cause those behind you to vere left and right potentially causing panic and mayhem.

All this begs an interesting question. Do you adjust your skiing to your style or to help those behind you?

And does anybody have any statistics which show whether paths have more accidents, more serious accidents or are the most fun place to exercise mind-reading? Have you ever had to go 'out of your comfort zone' (ie. off the edge of the path) to get around somebody who chose to hang a turn right as you drew alongside them? Indeed, when you're going down a path through the trees - do you look ahead for a nice little upside ridge you can go up and over to get around a slow path-blocker? And do you do that ridge on the one ski, the other lifted? Somebody could write a book on 'How to avoid people on the path, and best of all how to circumnavigate the one last final sharp left turn through a narrow tunnel that everybody is trying to squeeze through at the end of the run when they did not slow down in time and find a gap to get through'. :)

Some interesting replies.

I'm not so sure about 'digging in'. Knowing my luck - I'd get myself all sort of snug - and a piste basher would come along and seal my fate.

Also, considering that people trapped in avalanches do their utmost to get out from under the snow.....

And what do they say about survival? The best way to get rescued is to make yourself seen. Hiding would not help.

Then there's the advice to follow others.At 3pm - on a day when it's snowing and blowing - you can't be sure that there *will* be anybody else coming along; and the last thing you want to do is wait until it gets dark!!! (as well!!).

On that day I *was* skiing with somebody - but in a total whiteout it's just impossible to always keep eachotherin sight. We had made a rule to always wait at the bottom of the run for eachother. Which actually, they did - but when I eventually turned up they did say 'Where the *hell* have you been?'. Still - the anchor of security was there, and had I not turned up he would have been able to say that I was lost somewhere between A and B.

It's a hard decision between 'go' and 'wait and see'. If you 'go' you stand the possibility of getting way off track and getting (more?) lost, and into the bargain you could exhaust yourself going up and down the bowl - and then have a bad fall and be in real trouble!!!. The 'wait and see' worked for me and it's worked for others.

I'm surprised that nobody said 'listen'. Quite often you hear people calling to eachother in whiteouts. Not that it is very directional - but at least you'll know you're not alone.

But yes, best is to have a mobile phone with you. Embarassing as it is to have to call and say - 'Sorry - I'm lost 200 metres from where I started'. :)

Useful link to check out road conditions in canton Graubunden in Switzerland - http://www.strassen.gr.ch/sites/strassenzustand/karte.html - and for the Swiss snow situation/avalanche reports - http://www.slf.ch/lawineninfo/lawinenbulletin/regionale_lawinenbulletins/rbnmgr/rbnmgr_c_DE

Of course - do not view these if you have no intention of going there. It's just to depressing to be missing out..... :-)

I ought to add - it was not a simple matter of going to the bowl rim - as it either did not exist for 500 feet upwards - or could be a lip over into oblivion or topographically impossible to climb. Going to 'a lip' and working around was not an optin either as you'd lose sense of where you were in relation to the bowl.

Not sure that a phone or hip flask would help solve the problem - but at least you could have a laugh with somebody about it...... :-)

Hi,

Here's a situation I found myself in, and I was lucky to get out of, but I'd be interested to know what others might have done.

It was snowing heavily in thick cloud – a total whiteout. The sort where you can barely see your ski tips. It was blowing gusty. I was normally dressed for a whiteout – goggles etc, but did not have any special equipment with me such as a compass, mobile 'phone, length of rope……? I was skiing on normal skis with ski sticks.
There were very few people 'out skiing' but the mountain/pistes were open and I was skiing on a 'marked' piste although it was deep snow. The pistes in this location *normally* have orange poles marking the edges, however for reasons not too obvious – they were absent over the 200 metre section I was in.
The ground I was covering was a bowl shape with steep sides all round. Only the entry to the bowl and the exit to the bowl diagonally opposite each other was the way 'in/out'. I fell over somewhere towards the middle of the bowl, and when I sorted myself out and was on my feet – I could not tell which way to go. My tracks had already covered over. As I set off in any direction – I ended up going higher and higher and steeper and steeper up the bowl sides until I would realise that I had followed a 'bad route'. I'd turn around and allow myself to go straight to the centre – and then try another route – say – at 90 degrees to the one I'd just tried. This went on for ages and owing to disorientation, it was difficult to keep on trying new routes as I was not sure which ones I'd already tried.

Eventually – luckily – as I was doing another route – some people went whizzing past me in a straight line – so I followed them out.

In many years of skiing I'd never found myself in such a situation, a combination of factors leading me to a problem which only occurred because of the one final factor – falling over and losing my direction. Normally, you're in a more 'downhill orientated' position – so it sorts itself out.
I did not want to leave a ski stick as a pointer for fear of losing it to the wind/snow. There was no sense in placing anything on the ground – it would have been blown away/covered in no time. There was no hint of sun through the clouds. All directions were the 'same colour'. I had skied over this piece of ground maybe 500 times – but suddenly I might as well have been at the North pole.

Would a compass have helped? Maybe, but the problem is/was – the flat of the bowl was quite large – so you would have trouble knowing when you were in the centre and following a bearing from half way across the bowl represents a 45 degree error – so you could be about 90 degrees out of reckoning.
Anybody else been in this situation – and what did you do about it?

bandit wrote:No one is nit picking on what you did. You have received thanks for raising the topic within the thread.

If you are happy to let your guide supply and manage your safety equipment, then fine, it's your personal decision.

Meercat wrote:
I started this thread to raise awareness - and now get the feeling that others are intent on nit picking on what I did originally spend a lot of time formulating - with emphasis on checking and getting local information and expertise.

These local expert's who advised you don't reckon on skiers carrying avvy probes. Please name them, so I can avoid hiring them, yes really.

If you have posted inaccurate information on what is a very serious topic, then you can expect debate as you have posted onto an open forum. Readers may see your posts and think that it is definitive.

As for there being a status of "none" for avalanche risk, there is no 0 on the hazard scale, possibly an acknowledgement that avalanches can be formed from material other than snow.

I would say that no-one who is an expert, would call themselves such, as that would imply that they knew all there was to learn.

I believe that those who post here regularly do give plenty of attention to their own safety in the mountains. Among the correspondents to this thread is someone who undertakes long distance high alpine tours both winter and summer.
Yes, you have offered up what you know, perhaps it's an indication that you have some more to learn. There are plenty of courses on offer.

1. I did not say anywhere that I was advised not to carry a probe. That is your presumption. So, Really - you don't have to worry about avoiding anybody.

2. Anyody who reads the post will see - if they can remember it - that this is a personal collection of information and does not amount to being a definitive 'guide'. Indeed - what I posted is peppered with the advice of 'ask those in the know'.

3. Avalanches composed of materials other than snow are outside of what they predict, and any suggestion that people must observe avalanche warnings in determmining land slips, is fatuous.

4. There are people who are experts in avalanche research. They know enough to be able to say that they are.

5. If I need a course - I will surely take one. One course I do not need though, is one telling me to take a course. If, as you say, nobody is an expert, and you choose to make rude comments about my abilities to outline an area sofar not covered here, then maybe you can do better.

Ps. I didn't raise the topic within the thread. I raised the thread as a topic.

I'd just like to clarify a few things before ending my contribution to this thread - which in my first post I indicated that I am no expert - but I offer what I do know......

1. I hire equipment from the guide I pay a large amount of money to. He is a fully fledged affiliated guide - who's *primary* role is the safety of his guests. I rely upon him for safety equipment - and in so doing - assure myself that I have recieved what they who know best can provide.

2. There is such a thing as 'none' when it comes to avalanche danger. When there is no snow at all.

I started this thread to raise awareness - and now get the feeling that others are intent on nit picking on what I did originally spend a lot of time formulating - with emphasis on checking and getting local information and expertise.

Anyway - the subject has been brought into the spot light - and it was high time - those who post here regularly and consider themselves 'experts' - paid due attention to his matter which to date has received insufficient coverage.

Ps. I think we're in for a bumper winter snow fall in Europe... just a guess.

I don't change my batteries - as I hire mine in the resort and ask them to ensure that the batteries are fresh. (I give it back at the end of each day).

I wonder though, equally as important as batteries, how many people check that they've put theirs in to 'send' mode before setting off - particulalrly after lunch - when they've been 'playing' with it?

In addition, those couple of minutes whilst you're waiting for the last person to finish adjusting their hat/helmet, gloves, scarf, stick loops, sun scream, lip salve, goggles (and then realise that they have to take their gloves off to do up a zip that they undid to get the lip salve out etc etc) - that one person goes into 'search' mode to see if - in fact each person does have theirs switched on - in send mode? You'd be surprised.....