What if you felt the front of your skis startinh to "flap"?

I tried a totally new piste, alone, a couple of days back, so I "followed" the crowd downhill... and ended up with a little bit of challenge somewhere towards the end, when it was pretty steep. I felt at a certain point, as if someone's holding the front and back ends and "flapping" them, (This is the best I can describe it), and I think it happened during the turn.

Is it because:
- I am just too fast and am initiating somekind of stop with that motion?
- I am not pressing forwards enough?
- I am sitting down too far back?
- I am losing the grip for whatever reasons?
- I am skidding instead of erm... turning correctly?
- I am leaning too much?
- I have the wrong ski size?

...or it's just natural going down a steep slope...?

terence,

Think of a ski like a lever or a playground seesaw! You are in the middle or fulcrum.
Leaning back causes pressure (weight) to to to ski tails
Leaning forward causes pressure to go to ski tips!
Do you have this "picture"?

Next picture,,this one is more difficult,,since I am going into your brain!

As you ski (perhaps too fast or in too steep terrain) this is what your brain is telling you, "
Terence terence,,,,,too fast too fast,,,slow down"
What do you do?

You lean back! Putting pressure on ski tails!

Now the skis are telling you, "Tererence,,,Terence...too fast silly man,,,,slow down"

Those tips are "indicators" on where your "stance" is!!!

My advice to you Terence is;
1. Slow down
2. Stay on slopes of your competency level
3. Learn the "mechanics" of skiing
4. Listen to your brain and react with "positive" actions,,,,ie hands in front, knees pushing forward, and use "parchute" to slow down!

Hope this helps you.

Thanks pavelski, so you mean that the "flapping" I felt was just something you naturally if going down fast/steep?

Let me try to analyze my mind during that moment. I was trying to slow down... or at least I felt/tried to, by squatting down to give more pressure at the end of the turn thinking that doing so might slow me down, well... it did, but I didn't quite like these "flapping" I felt on my skis, while doing it.

Perhaps this is exactly the wrong thing I have in my mind, by goin down with my bum. So I might be able to correct this by thinking of bringing my knees forwards to the front end of my skis. Point no. 4.

Just one question... what are the "mechanics" of skiing you were refering to?

A flapping ski simply means that part of the ski is unweighted. As pavelski has suggested that's where more of your weight should be.

Squatting is a classic mistake, you're trying to do the right thing but aren't executing it right. What you need to do in down weight flexing the ankles, knees and hips staying balanced over the skis. What you'll be doing is sitting down a little which pushes you weight back.

Make sure you have enough flex in your boots to get proper ankle flex. Boots should be set up with soft flex for recreational skiing.

andyhull wrote:A flapping ski simply means that part of the ski is unweighted. As pavelski has suggested that's where more of your weight should be.

Since it's a soft ski that is more likely to be found flapping on piste, exceeding it's performance window and struggling to hold an edge at speed, I can't agree :D

I used to own a pair of skis that did this, purchased new, and promising much. I tried every skiing variation of stance to get them to quit flapping. Ebay came to the rescue before they did my head in.

Serves me right for believing the marketing hype :roll:

bandit wrote:

andyhull wrote:A flapping ski simply means that part of the ski is unweighted. As pavelski has suggested that's where more of your weight should be.

Since it's a soft ski that is more likely to be found flapping on piste, exceeding it's performance window and struggling to hold an edge at speed, I can't agree :D

I was about to write the Bandit conclusion myself. If the issue was one of "weight back", the front of the ski would not be pressured, hence would not be in turning mode. The ski would just be running straight. (Unless you were deliberately doing "downward unweighting" technique)

With a soft ski, even if your weight is forwards, the ski tip can begin to bite, slip, bite, slip. This is particularly noticable on hard pack. Here the tip edge grips until the weaker torsional ski stiffness, (ski twist), allows the front of the ski to twist, thereby, releasing the edge. The ski relaxes, then bites again.

I keep a soft pair in Niederau, when the piste is soft, you can work them quite hard, because they don't bite and slip. They take an edge, and if you go "outside of the performance window", they slide through the snow, rather than twisting. This reduces the turn radius, but when you are used to a ski behavior, you adjust. It's just like a woman.

There is another occasion for tip slapping, again with a soft ski. That is when you are going at speed in a straight line. Here the weak longtitudinal stiffness is displayed. Undulations on the piste cause an upforce, then there is springback. Then the ski is thrown up again, and so on.

This sounds like chatter. Chatter occuers when the tip end of the ski tries to carve a tighter turn than the rest of the ski. It starts to tighten the turn, but suddenly is sprung back to the original track. it can do this several times until the ski breaks loose, or you change the track of the ski by straightening out the turn.

A common reason as suggested above is a soft ski, but this is normally combined with a smaller sidecut. If you are going faster than the ski can carve at a particular inclination, it will chatter. This is because the arc you are following is too large, because of your speed. Torsional stiffness, and dampening help to prevent chatter, and these are designed into higher end skis.

The solution as said above, is to slow down, and allow the skis to turn in an arc that is in tune with the sidecut, and inclination. On steep slopes, this requires commitment at the start of the turn. That is, you must have the confidence to lean out down hill, and forward into the new turn, holding the turn past the fall line. Just because the slope is steeper, you cannot go faster than you would normally on those skis. To control speed, you must make your turns fuller, even seemingly turning back up the hill a little.



Trencher

bandit wrote:

andyhull wrote:A flapping ski simply means that part of the ski is unweighted. As pavelski has suggested that's where more of your weight should be.

Since it's a soft ski that is more likely to be found flapping on piste, exceeding it's performance window and struggling to hold an edge at speed, I can't agree :D

I used to own a pair of skis that did this, purchased new, and promising much. I tried every skiing variation of stance to get them to quit flapping. Ebay came to the rescue before they did my head in.

Serves me right for believing the marketing hype :roll:

This was the first thought that came into my head.

Can the poster let us know what skis he is using, as my guess would be they are either a softer beginner ski or they are just not up to scratch for his ability.