Latest posts for the topic "Carving mindset for Mike"

Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:06:25 GMT

Mike asked me in a post recently for insight into the mindset for carving. I don’t know if it requires a mindset, but there are some concepts that are hard to get your mind around. Chief among those concepts is how to get the edges to grip through the whole turn? How is the edge pressure achieved ?

There are a lot of explanations out there and most talk about pressuring the skis or flexing and extending the legs. All of which are confusing if you can’t picture what is actually happening. I’ve said before that the problem with watching people who are good, is that often their movements are subtle and it is hard to figure out what is going on.

A common way of explaining the concept is to think of bathroom scales. You stand on the scale and see your weight. If you suddenly flex your legs, you will momentarily see your weight decrease. As you finish sinking on the scale, the weight displayed will momentarily increase above your actual weight. Now start to extend your legs and the weight display will be heavier than your actual weight until your legs finally straighten.
This is a classic case of "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

The problem with this example is that it makes you think of an strictly up and down movement. In carving this up and down movement is offset to one side, the inside of the turn. This is where angulation comes in. Angulation is really offsetting your feet (and skis) from your body.

A picture is worth a thousand words and a picture with arrows on it is worth a lot of instructor modeling where you can’t see what’s actually happening……

So our first picture shows the skis on the new downhill edges and our hips and body moving out over the snow inside the turn. Note that the skis are already on edge before we commit to the turn.

Now we start to lower our body downwards to the inside of the turn (and downhill). We know from the bathroom scale exercise that this is making us (and our edges) lighter. At this point in the turn, the forces working against us are small and we don’t need much edge pressure. So it’s not a problem.

Halfway though the turn now and heading down the fall line. Speed is increasing and centrifugal force is working against us. We start to need edge pressure. It is achieved by rising upwards (which remembering the bathroom scale and as we rose upwards, we appeared heavier) means our ski edges are forced downwards biting into the snow.

Nearing the end of the turn now and the forces against us are maxing out. We need more edge pressure and we get it from rising up further to get over our skis again.

This type of turn is called a "cross over turn" because in the transition from one turn to the next, our body crosses over the skis. In it we sink into the turn and rise up out of the turn. The cross over turn is the simplest of carved turns and the best way to learn how to get a feel for edge pressure. There are other types of carved turn.

The sinking phase in this turn should be quick. The rising up phase should be slower and progressive. If the skis start to skid out, then rising up a little faster will drive the edges back down into the snow.

As I mentioned above, the problem with the bathroom scale analogy is obvious from the photos. There is very little flexing and straightening of the legs. The vertical motion is achieved by inclining the legs not flexing the legs.

I have taken liberties with the physics to keep things simple. I hope that doesn’t offend any anal scientist out there. I just wanted to demystify carving a little. This is not meant to be a lesson, but rather my explanation of a concept.

Trencher

Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:57:55 GMT

Informative, thanks Trencher, can't wait to try to put it into practice!

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:22:04 GMT

excellent pictures trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:07:21 GMT

Trencher, this is a superb piece of pictorial tution. the technique was referred to as avalamont, by the French, and Grundschwung by the Austrians.

I rarely use it on piste, mainly because I just use upward unweighting, (ie just going into the turn) Where I find the downward unweight technique useful is off piste, because it helps avoid being thrown, on uncertain terrain.

After looking at these pics, and your videos, I have to conclude that your technique produces more even arcs. At least when you do it.

You could have complted the triangle of forces on each of the pictures, with the vertical arrow changing direction, just as you have shown. The arrow would start somewhere about the solar plexus, maybe.

Another two pictures either before the first or after the last would have shown the crossover.

Fabulous. You have just ruined my winter. I had a mental map of this years improvements, and now I'm gonna have to change it.

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:13:42 GMT

Trencher = Legend

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:50:00 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:
Another two pictures either before the first or after the last would have shown the crossover.

I thought I'd leave the transition for another post....

Thanks for the appreciation guys

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:18:27 GMT

Top banana,

Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:47:24 GMT

Nice tutorial T

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:55:53 GMT

Just occurred to me. Given these pics, and previous pictures, together with your videos, such high quality. Who is the photographer?

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:28:29 GMT

....... now to put it into practice!!!!

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:48:03 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:Just occurred to me. Given these pics, and previous pictures, together with your videos, such high quality. Who is the photographer?

Anyone I can give a camera to Although among the informal group of people I carve with, there is alot of photo and video taking. Mostly though it employs the bucket meathod. That is, if you take a bucket load of photos, a few will be good. Expensive in the days of film, but highly effective in the digital age with huge storage and no extra cost. Digital quality is now so good that it is possible to crop a good picture out a bad one, for forum quality anyway.

There is a ski instructor, David, who sometimes snaps a few of me when he is taking pics for his ski school.He took this one which realy illustrates edge pressure. It is very cold day and the snow is rock hard. See there is hardly a wisp of snow comming up from the edge, and yet is possible to apply enough pressure to cut into the hard surface.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:36:48 GMT

WOW

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:51:07 GMT

So here's the bit that's missing, the transition. "Transition" because this is the link between turns where we transion from one turn to another. The transition hinges around changing from one set of ski edges to the other. Ideally we want to minimise the time on a flat ski. In a good transition, the lines left in the snow will show that it was achieved in less the the length of a ski. At the moment of transition we need the opposite forces at work compared to the turn where we need the edge press downwards. In other words, we need no pressure on the edges.

Remembering the bathroom scale again, when we straightened our legs and appeared to weigh more until we reached full extension. As our legs fully extended, there was a brief moment when we appeared to become very light. It is this moment of being very light that is needed for the transition and it is achieved the same way as on the bathroom scales.

Now remember that we are rising and falling in the turns by inclining our legs, not flexing and straightening our legs. A lot of energy is released from the decambered ski at this moment which can lift you into the air a little.

Here's a gif of the transition. Notice that the skis leave the ground a little.

Also notice that the body crosses over the skis during the transition, hence the term "cross over turn"

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:15:11 GMT

Hi Trencher, another great demo.

However, when I examine, it is clear that I have misunderstood your first demo pics/explanation. In the video, you are not downward unweighting, which is what I understood from the first explanation.

This is upward unweighting, pushing the legs away to de-weight, (as per bathroom scales demo), set the edges, and absorb during the turn.

As to the down unweight, which I had interpreted your first pics to be, I mean where you sink rapidly to de-weight, set the edges, and push away during the turn.

You have great leg flex and balance.

Oh and thanks again for the assistance on the "Testing" thread. After the help you gave, I did manage to upload another picture, wrong size, but I will get to that.

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:08:18 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:Hi Trencher, another great demo.

However, when I examine, it is clear that I have misunderstood your first demo pics/explanation. In the video, you are not downward unweighting, which is what I understood from the first explanation.

I hope that's due to your preconception rather than my poor explanation

Dave Mac wrote:

This is upward unweighting, pushing the legs away to de-weight, (as per bathroom scales demo), set the edges, and absorb during the turn.

Yes, but The old idea of "pushing the legs away" (to unweight)is where it gets confusing for people learning to carve. Most of the vertical motion is achieved by inclining the legs not flexing them.

Dave Mac wrote:
As to the down unweight, which I had interpreted your first pics to be, I mean where you sink rapidly to de-weight, set the edges, and push away during the turn.

Actually not so much pushing during the turn in this very basic cross over turn. There is a turn which has an extension element within the cross over turn that is called a "cross through turn", but that requires the skills from the "cross under turn" first. I wanted to start with simple. Again, one the problems with trying to see what a carving skier is doing is that not only are many of the movements subtle but often turns are a blend of the three types of turn mentioned above. In order to be able to blend these turns together, each may need to be learned separately.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:56:55 GMT

Double WOW !

Bring on the snow !!!

Thanks for sharing Trencher

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:02:27 GMT

Very good, Trencher! Now you can move on to explain "cross under." I think Jonny Moseley is the perfect example in his mogul skiing!

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:27:57 GMT

Yes ... "cross under" ????
Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:10:14 GMT

A postscript to this thread... I made a GIF of a crossover transition using very accentuated movements. I hope it shows the rising up for the transition and the rapid sinking motion into the turn, creating the downward pressure to the ski edges. Accentuated movements like this are a good drill, but in normal skiing the movement would be more subtle

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:43:48 GMT

is there any reason why I cant see these pics and images everyone is talking about??
I love a good bit of carving and want to see them!!

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:14:38 GMT

Trencher,

What you say you are trying to show is extremely clear in the gif. I'm amazed at the degree that you can lean over and get the skis so angled. You must have taken a few tumbles in your years of practice to reach this stage. Over this winter I did manage to get the first of the basics but never could quite reach the snow with the uphill hand. Close ... but no contact. I need to build more confidence and bend my knees even more I expect. Practice, practice and more practice .... Also I probably need to keep the knees closer together and avoid the dreaded "A" frame. Can't wait for next winter to continue.

rossyhead; perhaps Admin Dave can answer your question ... the gif opened with the posting for me without any difficulty.

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:56:44 GMT

its working now thanks-i was at work so i think it was the browser or something-its a great thread, have to say and the images are really cool
im not sure what trencher will say about this as he is way more experienced than i am but im pretty sure you want to keep your knees apart as this makes the process easier. Mind you im also pretty sure there is a disagreement in the american way of understand this and the british way!
thats how i do it but not sure!!

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:15:26 GMT

rossyhead wrote: but I'm pretty sure you want to keep your knees apart as this makes the process easier.

I think what Mike meant is legs parallel. Which means when the legs are inclined, the legs come together, but skis remain apart. "A framing" is when the the inside leg does not get nearly as inclined as the outside leg. On the day the gif (above)was made, the snow was granular over patchy ice, so I was skiing a little defensively and A framing slightly.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:48:17 GMT

Yes Trencher, that's exactly what I was meaning to say. Thanks for the clarification.

And your comment about defensive skiing on granular over ice explains some of my lack of confidence. Martock, where I ski mostly, generally has an icy base due to our freeze thaw on the Atlantic coast. Also their base is usually 100% man made. As great as their snow making is, powder something reserved for other parts of the world. I think there was some there about 5 years ago ! You can easily recall the days with the best conditions of any year for years ahead.

So naturally, not only confidence and speed play a lot into developing carving skills ... conditions play a big part of it too. I "A" frame too much.

Great gif .. thanks,

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:50:38 GMT

[quote=Trencher
On the day the gif was made, the snow was granular over patchy ice, so I was skiing a little defensively and A framing slightly.

Yeah, Trencher, I thought I detected you holding back a little.

It was very nice to re-visit your first demo pictures and the video.

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:31:10 GMT

So, for what it's worth, here is my cross under transition/turn for a medium radius turn. The obvious difference from the crossover turn is that you stay low during transition. From this position, the legs can be actively extended during the first half of the turn and actively retracted during the second half of the turn. This type of turn/transition lends itself to short radius carves, but staying low for the transition, also gives better stability at higher speeds. It feels very smooth because your body stays low and continuing down the fall line as the skis carve back underneath you to start the new turn. The transition is aided by extending the old inside leg.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:10:30 GMT

Trencher,

Another great gif and matching description. Thanks!
You have an enviable talent in my opinion.

What are the specs on the skis you're using in this gif? About 165 in length? And what's the radius side cut? Are they a fairly stiff ski or easily flexed?

Just can't wait for next winter to get back at it !!

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 03:55:08 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:
What are the specs on the skis you're using in this gif? About 165 in length? And what's the radius side cut? Are they a fairly stiff ski or easily flexed?

Mike, Fischer Race SC 170/14M. A really easy to use, medium flexing ski. Damp, but still fun. Great edge hold on ice. Not a fast ski for Nastar, but very easy to run a course with. The in between radius makes them very versatile for general carving.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:52:25 GMT

Trencher wrote:
Mike, Fischer Race SC 170/14M. A really easy to use, medium flexing ski. Damp, but still fun. Great edge hold on ice. Not a fast ski for Nastar, but very easy to run a course with. The in between radius makes them very versatile for general carving.
Trencher

Trencher, I had expected in order to get such fluid tight turns, as you do, that you may have been using a shorter ski with soft flex to help the results. When you have the talent - the equipment comes along for the ride

I'm using Atomic SX9, 170 @ 15M. I suppose these too have a medium flex with the rating of "9"; or is this considered soft. They work well and have given may hours of great fun.

Haven't you posted a clip at some time using snow blades? I bet there you would produce some really tight turns with these!

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:53:40 GMT

Trencher,
Reading your posts I can't help thinking your a fan of Harold Harb? I bought his essentials book this year and it really seems to make sense but so many people seem to have a downer on him. Are you a fan?
Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:29:33 GMT

Mike3000 wrote:Trencher,
Reading your posts I can't help thinking your a fan of Harold Harb? I bought his essentials book this year and it really seems to make sense but so many people seem to have a downer on him. Are you a fan?
Mike

Mike, there are many resources for free carving,Harold Harb's stuff is well worth looking at. I take ideas from many places and see what works for me. One thing to bear in mind is that most of the info on carving is racing oriented. In racing the idea is to get the turn over with and get to the next gate going as fast as possible. For me. free carving is about enjoying the turns, hanging in there for as long as possible, and controlling speed without resorting to skidding. This is at odds with what race coaches are trying to achieve.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:10:13 GMT

Great informative forum piece and images to demonstrate.
I will study and apply soon.

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 14 May 2009 18:45:05 GMT

maybe you have shared this video before but i thiink it goes through carving quite well-poss more the european way than american methods?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlzIkIQa3e0

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 14 May 2009 19:23:41 GMT

rossyhead wrote:maybe you have shared this video before but i thiink it goes through carving quite well-poss more the eruopean way than american methods?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlzIkIQa3e0

That's a great video. I'd really like to watch the dvd sometime.

What I was trying to convey in this thread was really just one aspect of carving. How do you get solid edge hold and actually press the edges into the snow. It can be so confusing when people talk of pressuring the ski and pressuring the boot cuff, but really it's just understanding that you have mass and you can use it. Instead of just balancing on the ski edges around the turn, you can become dynamic in your movements.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Thu, 14 May 2009 19:58:30 GMT

i have seen other short clips of it and went onto the website actually to see if it was for real etc and sounded ok-quite expensive though for a dvd i think it was over GBP30

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 04:57:42 GMT

Trencher, i watch your short ski clips on this site ..they are rock'n'rolla..awesome stuff...

two questions : 1. how do you post film clips onto this site?
2. pros like you and klaus mair simply shift your hips from one "inside" and cross-over/under to the new "inside" and tip your skis on edge..interesting and a goal of mine to achieve - where does one attain this progression after learning how to let the turn happen due to gracity?

since i actually skiied with klaus m in lech-zurs this april(he is a class act in person) and he re-engineered my skiing since i have been skiing now one year (two seasons on skis) and thought i had improved till i ran into major trouble on the relatively steep slopes of lech and zurs. he focused on the up-&-forward move so i learnt how to let gravity turn my skis and thus get rid of my stem step/stem christie type turn..

here is clip if interested-1st 45 secs are good example of what i skiied like when i arrived..then next 5mins 30 secs are "training" and finally the last 4 minutes show me putting into motion my training..last 40 secs is me coming down a very steep mogulled up pitch on black at zurs, while some of my upper body rotation shows up, i was actually pleased that i came down clamly and undercontrol all the way, he taught me how to slide down steep pitches, slow, careful and relaxed..

have a look if you have the time...

ross - this is lessons with my pal klaus mair..the dvd costs only 29 usd, so definitely less than 40 sterling..
its one heck of a value investment...and the man is very responsive..
http://www.vimeo.com/4344290

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 06:38:10 GMT

dustyfog

The slomo movie clips are actually GIFs, that you can make with some photo editors. I used them in this thread because they illustrated a point, but generally should be avoided on forums because they are large files and would make a page slow to load. I used photoscape to make tham. It's free at http://photoscape-download.com/new/home/?affebnid=147&gid=&ovid=&yid=&msid=&hop=howgood

I certainly don't class myself as a pro like Klaus Mair. Just a keen carver on skis and boards.

To really work on carving, you need some nice corderoy and a gentle pitch, where you don't feel the need to skid to control speed. Did you notice that in Dax's video, his outside ski is carving a lot of the time ? Having his legs spread wide apart means that in a turn, the outside ski is on edge and starts carving. Soon his inside leg will start to stay under him and later will follow the other leg to outside of his body. There's a video on youtube which teaches carving in a similar way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO0hjU5Vmuo There's also a series of videos on bootfitting and skis by the same guy (Bill Thistle) http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=raycantu401&view=videos

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 14:04:49 GMT

dustyfog wrote:

he focused on the up-&-forward move

that might be that "foragonal movement" i was talking about..........

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 14:07:04 GMT

sorry about the price guessing I thought (half presumed because it is so good) that it would be that expensive!
I agree with trencher it is only worth trying on the right terrain-much like anything new, is NO fun doing on chopped up bumpy afternoon crud!!
on the other hand i dont like how Bill explains it......

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 16:23:47 GMT

rossyhead wrote:
on the other hand i dont like how Bill explains it......

I have an open mind about it. It seems a very natural way to learn and it's what kids do, if left to figure it out themselves. It may well be a drill that works for some people needing to get their outside ski out from under them.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 19:01:03 GMT

thanks trencher, absolutely, dax's outside ski weighting is so good and so natural and he is on his edge that he has no problem lifting his inside ski..dad is a ways from that..my right leg really seemed to lag on the right turn, my weaker turn, left leg as downhill ski did not feel as solid as right leg, but it began to change in lech-zurs...that is what klaus got rid of with the up and forward..and strong focus on timing also so i wait longer as skis turn into the fall-line, before bringing skis together ..by the way, those gentle training slopes are almost non-existent in lech!
thanks for links to bill thistle's videos - watching the ones he focuses on the boots

here is dax..again...
http://www.vimeo.com/4335854

thanks - now all preparation is mental

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Fri, 15 May 2009 19:20:08 GMT

dustyfog wrote:

thanks - now all preparation is mental

Unless you get some inline skates. I think inline skating is the best way to improve carving skills in the off season. Once you have the basics of skating down, it's just a matter of finding a car park with a gentle slope and then carving a lot of turns. Not only does it improves balance, but as you can't skid the turns, the sensation is just like a locked in carve on skis. Take that feeling back to the skis next winter and I'm sure you will notice the difference.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sat, 16 May 2009 00:55:00 GMT

historically inline-skates killed my shins, same thing happened when i started skiing last year. Dax is a bomber on his roller-blades and right now is rip-stik-ing away. I should get a new pair and start roller-blading, i.e. inline skating but right now incapacitated - just had rotator cuff/bicep tendon repair surgery...right arm not exactly functional and extremely painful..

thanks for the counsel
best
dustyfog

ps: here is dax and dad last year, april 08 at sunshine village alberta, with pal adrian,..come a long way, he sure has, dad too i think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_uoROUiYMQ

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sat, 16 May 2009 18:36:55 GMT

Here we are on May 16th, -- the flies and weeds now realize it's their time of the year --- and we are still "wishfully" on the snow.

I really enjoyed your 10m27sec clip dustyfog. I wish I was there too! What a great slope. It is easy to see you were enjoying every second

Trencher,

Are the actions for carving the same on roller blades as on the skis? I've heard before that it is one of the best cross training means for the skiing off season. I have the blades but haven't yet acquired confidence to relax enough. Maybe when I get some elbow pads that will come too. I suppose using the ski poles with the roller blades may help with the confidence a bit too.

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sun, 17 May 2009 09:51:41 GMT

the video of my son skiing is just an ode from father to son for teaching dad that skiing is good for his soul.

the video of me, is a training video, sorry, its long but really its my cut before klaus sends me his analysis, so i can watch it over and over and burn into memory all the things i learnt...i do provide a warning that it's long..dont mean to bore anyone else..
it was posted to get some counsel from trencher and also for ross to "meet" someone who had skiied under the wing of the class act, mr mair.

trencher's advice was helpful and his discussion on this thread has been very useful.

for instance just by watching my own baby-steps (its just one year of skiing, two seasons) and its not like i ski all the time, got to hoof it to get to a slope, nothing in "manhattan" after all! I figured out, after referring back to klaus' video, watching trencher's gif's that (a) while i have the up move down, i need to get more forward still, and be even more patient; (b) remind myself what i did to get down the steeps in ontrol so when i re-engage, it should be second-nature this coming winter or earlier (thats just hoping, since right arm is out of commission!)

now mike from NS - is that Nova Scotia! just curious..

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sun, 17 May 2009 13:49:30 GMT

dustyfog wrote:
now mike from NS - is that Nova Scotia! just curious..

Yes dustyfog, NS = Nova Scotia -- the land of the Bluenose and Peggy's Cove. Have you ever visited here?

I think you're ready for White Face at Lake Placid. That's relatively close for you. Some really steep trails there A friend sent me a DVD recently of a really great time he had there this spring. Perfectly clear skies and great skiing conditions!!
Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sun, 17 May 2009 20:51:48 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:Here we are on May 16th, -- the flies and weeds now realize it's their time of the year --- and we are still "wishfully" on the snow.

Not to mention the mosquitos. Minnesota's state bird btw, along with the wood tick, our state animal.

Mike from NS wrote:
Are the actions for carving the same on roller blades as on the skis? I've heard before that it is one of the best cross training means for the skiing off season. I have the blades but haven't yet acquired confidence to relax enough. Maybe when I get some elbow pads that will come too. I suppose using the ski poles with the roller blades may help with the confidence a bit too.

There are many sports that share concepts. The concept theme of this thread is used in mountain biking, skate boarding, and other sports. Just about anything where you can use vertical motion to gain extra traction, whether it's a wheel, a shoe or an edge.

Inline skating obviously has some similarities with skiing and there are ski carving concepts that can be discovered and practiced using inline skates.

Aside from the vertical motion, angulation and the effect of various rotation movements can be explored. The effect of any rotational movement is very pronounced on skates, so it's a good way to practice keeping a quiet body. The basic skating stroke for propulsion is what in many sports is called a pumping movement. Pumping turns on line skates (with the legs parallel) is a great work out. It's possible to slalom uphill on skates using this pumping effect. Incorporating this into the first half of carved ski turns, can increase speed.

Spending time slaloming on skates seems to loosen up your movements and make them more flowing.

Pads, wrist guards, and a helmet are essential. If you are frightened to fall, you won't learn much. Like carving on skis, carving on skates takes a little commitment. In your part of the world Mike (where it won't look so strange), a pair of hockey shorts can make the odd fall easier on your butt.

Once you start getting the skates on edge further, you have to watch out for the brake. Being wider than the wheels, it can lift the wheels up mid turn. rather like boot out on skis. I like to have a brake on skates, because it saves a lot of wear on the wheels, but I trim the rubber block a bit narrower.

Trencher

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Sun, 17 May 2009 23:12:53 GMT

Trencher wrote:
Not to mention the mosquitoes. Minnesota's state bird btw, along with the wood tick, our state animal.

Yes, let's not mention the mosquitoes ... we might get them buzzing And the ticks are well established here as well. You would think more people would appreciate winter at which time these critters are scarce!

Good gloves are good to have along with the wrist guards and knee pads, and helmet. The "law" here will ticket you if not wearing a helmet while on in-line skates, skate boards or bicycles. I must pick up some good elbow pads and the hockey shorts are a good idea too.

There is a school parking lot nearby with a perfect incline -- slight --- to try what you have mentioned Trencher.

I have tried playing with turning feet and angulation of the ankles as much as possible on the ice skates. I skate on figure skates so I have to watch getting the picks too close to the ice. My roller blades have LED toe and heel lights -- so I'm set for night time skating.

Thanks for your pointers Trencher -- muchly appreciated,

Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 18 May 2009 00:53:35 GMT

Mike - would love to visit NS one of these days, i think once we did have a vacation planned to hit NS, Newfoundland, Labrador etc but life intervened. Where do you normally ski? I am only one year into it and most of my skiing is done in upstate NY at a small mountain called Catamount. Love the place, they nurtured my boy's natural love and skill at the sport, he took to it on the first day like an eagle takes to the skies...never looked back. Have been to Sunshine Village, Alberta with him, last year, great place, big mountain and so much snow in late spring. This year as you know from the thread, was Austria, have a TR in the Austria forum. Live in well, as I see it, the nerve centre of the planet, Manhattan!

Will inline skate once I am able. Have to find softboot skates, they exist I know.

Trencher for a good ole boy from Minnesota, well, actually its a very progressive state for sure; you have skiied many places on this planet. Were you a professional in the field, or just a passion you have made significant efforts to pursue? Regardless, your counsel, has been a pleasure and its all mine.

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 18 May 2009 15:04:47 GMT

dustyfog wrote:
Will inline skate once I am able. Have to find softboot skates, they exist I know.

dustyfog,

My inline skates are Firefly SL300 and are a soft boot. Very comfortable!
Mike

Re:Carving mindset for Mike

Mon, 18 May 2009 16:04:47 GMT

dustyfog wrote:Will inline skate once I am able. Have to find softboot skates, they exist I know.

Inline skates, like most other sports gear, needs a little research befor buying for the first time.

I think most skates now have a soft boot. For the cross training we are talking about, it's best to get as much ankle support as possible. So avoid low cut racing models. The frame is maybe the most important part of an inline skate. Cheaper models have frames that flex and twist, which is not good. For learning to skate, 80mm wheels are good. Once you are comfortable on skates, 90mm wheels seem to work best and cope with rougher surfaces better. Wheels of 100mm or more make for some long skates, which are harder to turn and balance on.

Definitely read some beginner inline skate instruction books. There are a few basic skills that make inline skating much easier and safer.

Trencher