Latest posts for the topic "Things that bug you."

Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 07:15:54 GMT

As you do was considering what bugged me most this year whilst skiing.

Analogue only transceiver came to top of list. Some people seem genuinely proud to have an outdated piece of equipment, that worked in hand of an expert I.e. mountain guide, when nothing better was available. I even saw one with no visible indication of noise level i.e only works when wind is low enough to allow you to hear subtle change in noise.

Reality is most skiers do a quick check and maybe 15min training once per year, looking for single victim. Whilst this is wholly inadequate at least with modern digital/analogue transceiver you have a chance. Anyone who has simulated a search for 2+ victims on a slope will realize that any help is much appreciated. If you were ever to miss someone reality is on slope with debris even a 10m climb back up takes too much time. Once skiis are off everything becomes huge effort.

Fortunately am sure insurance companies will fix this one eventually and "appropriate equipment", "appropriate knowledge", will be replaced by some clearer definitions and required training.

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 09:42:47 GMT

Every training/practice of skiing in avalanche terraine is mostly focused on reducing the risk exposure. That's it if there is at least one burial mistakes have been made, if there are two burials these mistakes were huge. So I feel that while knowing your equipment is very important more time should be spend on learning how to reduce the possibility of ever having to use it. I practice searches with digital/analogue transciever maybe 2-3 times a year, for about an hour, but don't spend much time on multiple burials, 2 victims max. It bugs me far more seeing people cutting slopes above each other and skiing off-piste as if it's some sort of amusement park. I read in one blog that when a group goes off-piste it should be equiped and know their equipment but it should ski as if no-one has an ABS, transciever, shovel and probe. And I agree. Just because equipment is the lastest technology it doesn't mean it's OK to increase the exposure, and if only one person is exposed at a time analogue transciever can probably do the job just as well, particularly if no slide occured. When three skiers are searching for their three mates with "dated" euipment it's not the choice of equipment that will be questioned. Too many factors involved in succcessful rescue. Digging is very hard too. Location, depth of burial. I don't think that with a full burial unless it happened in the nearest vicinity of a busy ski area with accident clearly visible 3rd victim has any realistic chance reqardless of equipment, so this emphasis on equipment is misleading. The last avalanche victim this season actually even had an ABS and wasn't buried but he still died when his friends reached him.

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 09:54:18 GMT

I agree with VSB.

No amount of state of the art, high tech and expensive equipment, no matter how competently this can be used will do anything but slightly increase the likelihood of survival after an avalanche.

The key is without any doubt in my mind the ability to act prudently and pre-assess every off piste slope before crossing it or skiing it.

Now on a grumpy old man note ....
The accessibility of more and more off-piste to the average (ie; relatively inexperienced) skier and the improvement in kit has vastly increased the danger IMHO.

In the "old days" to get to and actually get down many of the off-piste routes and itineraries was a skill in itself. But the ease with which boarders can wander around and the decrease in skill level needed to manage these pistes with fat skis etc has not been followed with an increase in skill and judgement in assessing the situation.

I saw a very small slide last year up on the Grande Motte glacier area triggered by some skiers. No one caught, nothing but (I presume) a bit of a "thrill" and adrenaline rush for those invlved. But ......

From my position in the restaurant, in the afternoon, on a sunny day I did think - Hmmmmm, bit warm to be up there now perhaps?

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 10:27:21 GMT

I suppose I get rather annoyed at people that ignore safety warnings when they're ski-ing/boarding.

When we were ski-ing on the Grande Motte glacier in Tignes in October there were loads of warnings about not going off piste and the dangers of falling into a crevasse. And the very day we were ski-ing there (on the piste of course) somone fell into a crevasse off-piste :shock:

Luckily for them it wasn't one of those 'bottomless' ones and the rescue team got them out okay.

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 11:24:45 GMT

Narcissistic people with this years must have gadge - the GO PRO!!!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 11:26:46 GMT

Agree with VSB and OldAndy. Am sure both of you have also skied off-piste with say level 3 warning and thought was a reasonable risk incidents still happen. This is actually what draws people off piste, sense of freedom, responsibility, decision making and real risk even with guide that something could happen. I think is a bit naive to think that incidents can't happen, there is intrinsic danger in high mountains of avalanche from above, Serac fall.

Personally I have no ABS (I don't expect to be caught in avalanche) but still consider it my responsibility off skiing off-piste/glacier to have correct equipment. 30m rope, harness, prusiks, screws, probe, shovel, transceiver. Why because people make mistakes and I would wish to be able to assist. When you are looking at minutes in burial situation 1st person on scene has to be rescuer. Unlike crevasse etc anyway best option is nearly always to call in assistance. Avalanche is completely different, would your thinking be not to accept assistance if someone arrived where a friend or family member was buried because it was "your own mistake"? Would you be great full had they been trained and had modern equipment? I assume nobody would keep probing around alone and wave people past as "they knew risks".

My view is people always wish to push limits and sometimes this will mean incidents happen. Those people in vicinity enjoying same risks should be willing and prepared to assist. If those people who sometimes cut above you etc were encouraged to do a course and dig out a rucksack at 2m there appreciation for risk would change. I will still go for the fresh powder once it has settled and start on reasonable gradient slopes and stay off wind loaded slopes. Does that mean I have never seen a sluff where I thought was reasonable to ski on. No because whenever you're are on a slope, you are taking educated decision it is safe. If nobody ever took that, there would always be fresh tracks given no slope is 100% safe.

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 15:53:40 GMT

Brucie wrote:Narcissistic people with this years must have gadge - the GO PRO!!!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Although as other brands are available...you could term it "wearable media"

:twisted:

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 16:11:36 GMT

bandit wrote:

Brucie wrote:Narcissistic people with this years must have gadge - the GO PRO!!!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Although as other brands are available...you could term it "wearable media"

:twisted:

Oxymoron ??

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 16:23:05 GMT

:twisted: she is no moron I have you know :evil: ;)

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 18:03:56 GMT

Iceman wrote::twisted: she is no moron I have you know :evil: ;)

Thank you :D More like the village idiot I reckon :P

Re:Things that bug you.

Sat, 12 May 2012 21:48:10 GMT

Ranchero_1979 wrote:Agree with VSB and OldAndy. Am sure both of you have also skied off-piste with say level 3 warning and thought was a reasonable risk incidents still happen. This is actually what draws people off piste, sense of freedom, responsibility, decision making and real risk even with guide that something could happen. I think is a bit naive to think that incidents can't happen, there is intrinsic danger in high mountains of avalanche from above, Serac fall.

Personally I have no ABS (I don't expect to be caught in avalanche) but still consider it my responsibility off skiing off-piste/glacier to have correct equipment. 30m rope, harness, prusiks, screws, probe, shovel, transceiver. Why because people make mistakes and I would wish to be able to assist. When you are looking at minutes in burial situation 1st person on scene has to be rescuer. Unlike crevasse etc anyway best option is nearly always to call in assistance. Avalanche is completely different, would your thinking be not to accept assistance if someone arrived where a friend or family member was buried because it was "your own mistake"? Would you be great full had they been trained and had modern equipment? I assume nobody would keep probing around alone and wave people past as "they knew risks".

My view is people always wish to push limits and sometimes this will mean incidents happen. Those people in vicinity enjoying same risks should be willing and prepared to assist. If those people who sometimes cut above you etc were encouraged to do a course and dig out a rucksack at 2m there appreciation for risk would change. I will still go for the fresh powder once it has settled and start on reasonable gradient slopes and stay off wind loaded slopes. Does that mean I have never seen a sluff where I thought was reasonable to ski on. No because whenever you're are on a slope, you are taking educated decision it is safe. If nobody ever took that, there would always be fresh tracks given no slope is 100% safe.

So, we agree that it's not the equipment issue:)

Re:Things that bug you.

Sun, 13 May 2012 07:30:24 GMT

Equipment advances have changed expectations.

Fat skis turn everyone into a ski god (sic)

The mountain has become a Theme Park, where everyone can get a thrill with an overriding assumption that it's been made safe by "the resort".

Not understanding that resorts have a finite responsibility.

Not comprehending that buying safety kit will not help you to survive unless you understand how to make safe choices in the 1st place.

Analogue transceivers still have the greatest range, but do need lots of practice.

Re:Things that bug you.

Mon, 14 May 2012 21:33:25 GMT

Brucie wrote:Narcissistic people with this years must have gadge - the GO PRO!!!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

You know what's really great about being a narcissist?

Me.

Re:Things that bug you.

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:13:27 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbuk9AyEap8&feature=related

Check this one out and see if your more convinced. Incidently lucky there was more than 2 in group with the distance they were leaving between each other no chance for rescue from below. Nice to do long pitches but comes with a big risk.

Makes you think skins should be part of rucksack if only 2 in group.

Re:Things that bug you.

Wed, 16 May 2012 15:26:36 GMT

.....snow boarders that dont look where they are going and nearly wipe us skiers out!!!

Re:Things that bug you.

Wed, 16 May 2012 16:13:22 GMT

tropicana wrote:.....snow boarders that dont look where they are going and nearly wipe us skiers out!!!

Thats boarderist.

I have seen plenty of skiers doing as bad if not worse.

Re:Things that bug you.

Thu, 17 May 2012 09:50:33 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

tropicana wrote:.....snow boarders that dont look where they are going and nearly wipe us skiers out!!!

Thats boarderist.

I have seen plenty of skiers doing as bad if not worse.

Skiers who have yet to understand that Snowboarders have a big blind spot when they turn 1 side.

Re:Things that bug you.

Thu, 17 May 2012 11:28:26 GMT

Statistics show that skiers are 3 times more likely to be involved in a collision than snowboarders.

Dr. Shealy's research also confirmed that alpine skiers are three times more likely to be involved in a collision with other people than snowboarders.

http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/facts-ski-snbd-safety.asp

This article makes interesting reading, it says, among other things, that the risk of collisions has stayed fairly static over the last 30 years.

I have also seen research (but cannot find it now) that showed that skiers are more likely to collide with other skiers and snowboarders are more likely to collide with other snowboarders.

Re:Things that bug you.

Thu, 17 May 2012 12:25:43 GMT

Does not surprise me. With carving skis and the quite extreme angles and direction change you can get, skiing has become more dangerous. People uphill seem oblivious that someone can do a high speed turn across width of a slope and then whilst having huge blind spot turn and cut back across. Even if you are doing consistent pattern some people still seem confused. Normally involves someone essentially doing a schuss with some limited affect skiddy non finished turns.

Re:Things that bug you.

Thu, 17 May 2012 12:39:03 GMT

It really bugs me when I have a ski trip planned ....

And the snow conditions are poor.
:cry:

Re:Things that bug you.

Thu, 17 May 2012 13:27:27 GMT

Get dancing Andy!

Re:Things that bug you.

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:24:48 GMT

Mekka wrote:Get dancing Andy!

Funny you should mention that ....

Off to Ibiza next week.
It is the first week of the clubbing season.
:mrgreen: