Latest posts for the topic "Ski Graphics - Left & Right."

Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:17:55 GMT

Reposted correctly:

Does anyone here have Skis with designs on them that basically gives you a left and right ski?

EG:

And do you always use them in the correct configuration? Does it annoy you if you get them the wrong way round? Do you have to swap them if you do?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:47:33 GMT

Please dont tell me these are your skis :roll:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:04:31 GMT

Iceman wrote:Please dont tell me these are your skis :roll:

Why? do you have the same ones? How can we been seen together now?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:35:47 GMT

Yes, I also have a pink all in one ski outfit :)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:37:11 GMT

Phew, thank god for that.....mine's lilac

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:13:35 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:Phew, thank god for that.....mine's lilac

And both with a zip at the back -)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:29:21 GMT

FQ & Andy......see why i put it in the wobble thread now?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:34:48 GMT

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:12:30 GMT

I have skis with graphics clearly giving me left and right skis, actually all my skis are like that. I usually don't swap them as they would look odd. Never got them wrong.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:52:11 GMT

My wife has a pair of Rossinnol's which have one in black and one in white both with completely different graphics on each one. She always has the White one on the right foot!
Rossignol Attraxion 1

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:08:09 GMT

I suppose though that with one black and one white it wouldn't really matter which way around you wore them.
However with certain graphics, as posted, they must be correct or they would look odd.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:13:26 GMT

Some of my skis are marked, some are not. But I always know on any ski, which is the right and which is the left ~ and I can do it blindfold.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:17:34 GMT

My ski poles are black and white. That is one white with black graphics and one black with white graphics. But I don't usually notice which way round they are..

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:22:05 GMT

I never look at the graphics on my hired skis. I am hopelessly unobservant :oops:

I have to ask the shop to stick a label with my name on it, on my skis, or I'd never be able to find them amongst the heaps of skis outside the mountain restaurants.

And when I'm ski-ing I'm definitely not looking at my skis :D

However - to answer your question Snapzzz, as far as I know I've never hired skis with left and right graphics.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:42:34 GMT

And do you always use them in the correct configuration? Does it annoy you if you get them the wrong way round? Do you have to swap them if you do?

I always use the same config. It doesn't matter which way, but at the start of the ski life or ski hire, I decide a left and a right ~ and keep them that way, every run, every day.

The body learns to recognise within a few hours the variants, (there is no such thing as perfection), and quickly learns to compensate.

And, yes, I have, got them the wrong way round and, on occasion, noticed their different performance, then changed them round.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:23:23 GMT

I have to say I think you're either lying Dave or you've convinced yourself you're some kind of psychological genius. No one would know if skis were identical which "should" be right of left.

With regards to the original post, yes, my skis do have specifically different graphics and I have swapped them over sometimes to see any difference. Which I am convinced there is not.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:16:11 GMT

TonyH said:

I have to say I think you're either lying Dave or you've convinced yourself you're some kind of psychological genius.

This is not the first time that you have either directly accused me of lying or associated it with me. Certainly, I am not a genius. I hope you have a large bank balance.

As to the subject, I am an engineer and understand production manufacturing and it's limitations. However, a major factor in ski variants is usage, and how the two skis become damaged in different ways during their lifetime.

There are many ways in which ski damage occurs, the two main divisions, apart from initial variants, being incidents and constant usage by the same skier.

Incidents might include hitting or glancing off something, tree, rock banking, (or in my case, Admin) Because of preferred turn direction, most hits occur on the same side, and damage compounds.

Without realising it, most skiers do use a left and right, even if they neither plan to do so, nor even think about it. The reason why I identify l&r is that my right hand holds the skis with the right ski brake on top, then I pull upwards with my right hand, and drop that ski to the right. All right handed skiers do this most of the time, because their right arm is stronger. Left handed skiers do the opposite, but they do it constantly.

Now, almost everyone has a dominant turn, and this is only significantly reduced with experience. Your dominant turn, TonyH, is right.

The effect if this is that one ski is constantly under greater pressure than the other. Over time, torsional and longitudinal stiffness between l&r increasingly varies.

Then the question is, can you notice it? My view is that VERY inexperienced skiers will never notice the difference, they will have too many other issues to contend with. Then there will be intermediates, some who do think about things, and try to understand the hundreds of variations going on in ski technique.
Of course, some skiers do not care about technique. Fair enough.

When you consider the great advice from people such as Pavel, Trencher and CEM, on how much difference a small change in binding and boot set up can make, then why would you NOT consider how much difference a ski variant can make?

No I am not a genius, I just think things through. And I can assure you that I do not lie. By my reckoning, this is the third time that you have accused me, or associated me with lying.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:01:20 GMT

I'm with Dave Mac on this

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:16:19 GMT

Tony_H wrote:I have to say I think you're either lying Dave or you've convinced yourself you're some kind of psychological genius. No one would know if skis were identical which "should" be right of left.

With regards to the original post, yes, my skis do have specifically different graphics and I have swapped them over sometimes to see any difference. Which I am convinced there is not.

They might be identical, but if you decide which one is which and stick to it, they will usually stop being so identical. Different edge wear and flex pattern will change a bit etc. Dave is 100% right, and the difference can be fairly pronounced. It's just that for skis with graphics it's decided in advance which foot you shout put then on, even that when they are new graphics will be the only difference.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:32:40 GMT

An interesting drill I've done a few times is to switch just one ski with someone. In just a few turns I adjust to having a different length and side cut radius on each foot. I don't differentiate left and right with any of my skis and have never noticed a difference between them. Having said that, I don't doubt that other people have become used to having a left and right ski and would notice the difference for the reasons Dave gave and many more.

There are many aspect of skiing that people can disagree on, but still have respect for each other.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:37:28 GMT

I suppose that if you swap them all the time the wear will be more symmetrical. I have no idea what is better, probably neither...

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:36:30 GMT

It would be an interesting experiment to label one's skis, in small writing, 'left' and 'right' and then use them as normal and see how many times you ended up putting them on the correct foot - something like spinning a coin and seeing how many times it came down 'heads'.

I can well believe that if you consistently put the same ski on the same foot then after a lot of use the skis would develop different wear patterns, which you could detect if you swapped them around, like shoes do.

However, even if I had my own skis I don't think that ski-ing once or twice a year (like I do) would be enough time for the differential wear pattern to develop. It's different for DaveMac because he does masses of ski-ing.

I am sure I would notice if it was possible somehow to swap around my left and right welly boots :lol:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:02:35 GMT

I have noticed that some more experienced skiers have a left and right ski.

When my kids used to race on the dry slope all the racers had their skis marked L and R.
Also, my daughter has race skis and they are clearly meant to be used on a specific side.
The tips indicate which and if worn on the wrong one they look pigeon toed.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:05:52 GMT

So whats being said is that skis BECOME left and right skis because of wear and tear. They're not made left and right, right?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:54:18 GMT

Some ski's are made left and right, Elan Amphibio;s, they have left and right printed on them for idiots like me, as they are Rockered and Cambered ski's, waveflex and with Porsche engineering etc..

Doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me but all I do know is that the first set of ski's I hired this year I didn't feel comfortable on, went back to the shop and I was lucky enough to be given the Elan's as my rental ski's. They were a pleasure to ski on for a progressing intermediate, sorting my boots out properly this year as well probably helped but the ski's were a pleasure, didn't want to give them back.

I am gussing repeated use of other ski's may cause the cambered effect over time and hence the right and left ski scenario.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:06:32 GMT

Tony_H wrote:So whats being said is that skis BECOME left and right skis because of wear and tear. They're not made left and right, right?

In general,skis are NOT made left and right. However, there is no such thing as pure exactness, and even when new, there will be minute, (hopefully), differences in the ski. Obviously when skis are new, this is not an issue for most people.

By creating a left and right, the opportunity is there for the body to learn how to deal with increasing usage variants ~ it isn't something that has to be thought about, the body of an experienced skier, constantly learns and adjusts.

This is much in the way that the body learns how to cope with having an injury to one leg. There is an adjustment in angulation, toe pressure.

Posted by a Truthful Non-Fanticist, Non-Genius, still awaiting an apology, but given previous experience, not really expecting one.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:17:59 GMT

Tony_H wrote:So whats being said is that skis BECOME left and right skis because of wear and tear. They're not made left and right, right?

There is a slant nose technology that is basically also makes your skis left and right as the tip is asymmetrical. Supposed to improve performance. I am thinking about Rossignol Radical or Dynastar Speed slalom skis.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:54:16 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:Posted by a Truthful Non-Fanticist, Non-Genius, still awaiting an apology, but given previous experience, not really expecting one.

Evryone is allowed opinions. So dont knock peeps.

What abouut L&R poles? ;)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:10:37 GMT

Wasn't is you Iceman who called Tony_H a double standard prick on one of his particularly bad days?

But, as you are say, we are all entitled to an opinion :D

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:36:47 GMT

Iceman wrote:

Dave Mac wrote:Posted by a Truthful Non-Fanticist, Non-Genius, still awaiting an apology, but given previous experience, not really expecting one.

Everyone is allowed opinions. So dont knock peeps.

Not when their opinion is rude. There are ways to disagree, point out an error, or educate the ignorant without resorting to insulting, demeaning, offending words.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:47:24 GMT

Good grief :roll:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:03:12 GMT

Indeed, what about left and right poles? Mine are factory-marked. No idea why and can't see/feel any difference. They seem absolutely identical apart from "L" and "R" on the handles. Does this make any sense?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:26:33 GMT

PrivateBryan wrote:Wasn't is you Iceman who called Tony_H a double standard prick on one of his particularly bad days?

But, as you are say, we are all entitled to an opinion :D

I think you will find that I edited my post to remove the non-acceptable language. I suggest you do the same :evil:

I think you will also find that I have since had a PM conversation with Tony and sorted things out there and not done a public slanging match.

I think some people should take heed from this advice....

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:14:09 GMT

Ok, so who wants to answer my question then?

Q. If you have skis with graphics that clearly look odd when they are reversed would you swap them over? Not because of any technical reason but purely for looks.

I wouldn't be able to stand it if they were incorrect even if they skied fine. I would have to swap them over and therefore create a set due to wear and tear that will become technically L&R.

I guess i have OCD, but then i do have to have one bad point don't i?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:21:44 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:Ok, so who wants to answer my question then?

Q. If you have skis with graphics that clearly look odd when they are reversed would you swap them over? Not because of any technical reason but purely for looks.

I wouldn't be able to stand it if they were incorrect even if they skied fine. I would have to swap them over and therefore create a set due to wear and tear that will become technically L&R.

I guess i have OCD, but then i do have to have one bad point don't i?

Have you got skis of this design.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:22:45 GMT

brooksy wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:Ok, so who wants to answer my question then?

Q. If you have skis with graphics that clearly look odd when they are reversed would you swap them over? Not because of any technical reason but purely for looks.

I wouldn't be able to stand it if they were incorrect even if they skied fine. I would have to swap them over and therefore create a set due to wear and tear that will become technically L&R.

I guess i have OCD, but then i do have to have one bad point don't i?

Have you got skis of this design.

No.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:52:43 GMT

Not getting drawn into any conversation about manners here, especially after my last experience.

I have had another look at my ski poles and they are labelled left and right as well as being different colours. I think it is probably just a gimmic though. Never noticed any difference even when getting them the wrong way around.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:27:45 GMT

You do have left and right skis .... as we had a thread about it a couple of years ago, but to be honest it does'nt make much difference

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:28:56 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:Ok, so who wants to answer my question then?

Q. If you have skis with graphics that clearly look odd when they are reversed would you swap them over? Not because of any technical reason but purely for looks.

I wouldn't be able to stand it if they were incorrect even if they skied fine. I would have to swap them over and therefore create a set due to wear and tear that will become technically L&R.

I guess i have OCD, but then i do have to have one bad point don't i?

The thing is it's very difficult to put them the wrong way when this is the case. I mean, how can you put the skis with graphics like on those on your picture wrong? It just won't happen. Just it doesn't happen very often that people when they can see would put the left shoe on a right foot. It can be seen, they don't need to feel it.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:34:45 GMT

When a store mounts bindings on skis for you, They are required to mark a left and right ski as part of process. They will normally place a sticker on the right ski to differentiate.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:04:10 GMT

Trencher wrote:When a store mounts bindings on skis for you, They are required to mark a left and right ski as part of process. They will normally place a sticker on the right ski to differentiate.

So they would do this, when the skis are not manufactured as L&R? I would guess this reinforces what we have said.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:15:41 GMT

verbier_ski_bum wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:Ok, so who wants to answer my question then?

Q. If you have skis with graphics that clearly look odd when they are reversed would you swap them over? Not because of any technical reason but purely for looks.

I wouldn't be able to stand it if they were incorrect even if they skied fine. I would have to swap them over and therefore create a set due to wear and tear that will become technically L&R.

I guess i have OCD, but then i do have to have one bad point don't i?

The thing is it's very difficult to put them the wrong way when this is the case. I mean, how can you put the skis with graphics like on those on your picture wrong? It just won't happen. Just it doesn't happen very often that people when they can see would put the left shoe on a right foot. It can be seen, they don't need to feel it.

I really think everyone is missing the point of my question. I don't care about left or right.

If you did put these skis on so that the graphics didn't line up the WOULD YOU TAKE THEM OFF AND SWAP THEM AROUND?
Would it bother you....or DOES IT BOTHER YOU.

THANK YOU.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:20:56 GMT

Yes, if I had skis with a left and right graphic and I put them on the wrong way around, it would bother me.

Probably because it wouldn't look right and that would be a distraction I didn't need.

Plus there would be bound to be some do gooders constantly pointing it out, which would be even more annoying.

Maybe it's just as well mine both look the same, no problem. :mrgreen:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:32:02 GMT

Snapzzz - I did answer your question - I said I am hopelessly unobservant and I wouldn't notice. And even if someone did tell me I still wouldn't care, as long as it didn't affect the performance of the skis.

When I'm ski-ing I'm much too busy having fun to look at the graphics on anyone's skis - even my own :lol:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:33:53 GMT

Think. I was guilty earlier :oops:
Yes, It wpuld bother me and yes I would swap them over.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:40:13 GMT

:shock: I have been known to make sure my scratches line up (where someone has gone across both skis in a queue), so I guess it would bug the hell out of me if I ever managed to put graphics like those on the wrong way round. Yes I would stop and switch them over.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:55:14 GMT

Would not bother me. They are all covered in snow & ice so who knows? :roll:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:17:11 GMT

Iceman wrote:Would not bother me. They are all covered in snow & ice so who knows? :roll:

Or should be :shock:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 06:53:24 GMT

Snapzzz, if you had skis with graphics similar to that on your picture (not strawberries, but clearly showing you where is left and where is right), how on Earth would you manage to put them wrong? I just don't think it can happen, therefore question is a bit too hypothetical.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 12:07:40 GMT

Ok, let me rephrase.

Q. Do you have OCD?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 12:10:25 GMT

Yes it annoys me to see persons buying such skis. They buy them more for "look" than performance.

I have just one pair that has such graphics and I did not even choose them. They were lent for testing and I loved them so much I bought them.

Luckily they are fat fat powder skis so you never see them and I never tune them ,,that is sharpen edges.

Keep away from such skis,,,,but sometimes you have no choice.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 12:36:55 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:Ok, let me rephrase.

Q. Do you have OCD?

:) :-) :D

If I had skis with variable graphics they would HAVE to be on the right way round.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 13:20:49 GMT

Let me get back to you. I am just arranging my pencils ;)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 13:39:49 GMT

Iceman wrote:Let me get back to you. I am just arranging my pencils ;)

One up each nostril?
To block the s...?
:roll:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 13:42:32 GMT

Pants on head?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 19:28:35 GMT

dont be daft dids ;)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Tue, 1 May 2012 19:38:28 GMT

Yes on all counts! - Fischer Koa skis, think they all have "left & right" designs. My mild OCD wouldn't let me put them on the wrong feet....!

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 11:42:33 GMT

Personally i just through my skis down and clip into the one that lands nearest my foot so it would really annoy me to have graphics that dictate orientation.
And i suppose that gives us another problem.
If we are forced to wear skis on certain feet then we are going to create, unintentionally' a left and right ski.

I have read peoples opinions that a ski is a ski and it shouldn't matter with foot they are on but i have to agree with Dave Mac somewhat and concede that skiing styles will make adjustments to your kit that over time will make subtle changes that could be noticeable if reversed.
When side slipping or hockey stopping i am guessing we all have a preferred left or right stance. I am not saying we are not equally comfortable in performing these manoeuvres in either direction but just that we probably have a natural disposition to one way or the other. Just as we are left or right handed.
And therefor over time wouldn't we be wearing out edges and flexing skis in a non uniform fashion?
It could be that Skis do not have a sufficient life span for this to be a real world issue but in theory i see that by using graphics such as these could have a detrimental effect

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 12:48:13 GMT

I suspect it doesn't matter too much overall. If it had detrimental effect, there won't be skis with graphics dictating left and right. And the other way around. If it was of a particular notable benefit all skis would be factory marked. Side slipping and hockey stopping are usually dictated by external factors not by your stronger sides. You side slip when you can't turn so you can't change direction you are facing even of you would prefer too. Of course most skiers are not equally comfortable, at least not naturally. It makes sense to practice these manoeuvers on an uncomfortable side as often as you can for the very reason that when you resort to them you don't usually have a choice of direction.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 12:57:58 GMT

hire them ;)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 17:38:41 GMT

Doesn't the servicing balance it all back to the original state?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 17:43:26 GMT

Who notices graphics any way !!!!

In one of my shops I was working in I put all the Point of Sale down one of the isles up side down, not one customer noticed 8)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 18:55:01 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Who notices graphics any way !!!!

In one of my shops I was working in I put all the Point of Sale down one of the isles up side down, not one customer noticed 8)

Probably got used to it -)

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 18:58:54 GMT

brooksy wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:Who notices graphics any way !!!!

In one of my shops I was working in I put all the Point of Sale down one of the isles up side down, not one customer noticed 8)

Probably got used to it -)

Lazy shoppers !!!!! :lol:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 19:07:32 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Who notices graphics any way !!!!

In one of my shops I was working in I put all the Point of Sale down one of the isles up side down, not one customer noticed 8)

I would have noticed, I may just not have said.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 19:43:29 GMT

Dids1 wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:Who notices graphics any way !!!!

In one of my shops I was working in I put all the Point of Sale down one of the isles up side down, not one customer noticed 8)

I would have noticed, I may just not have said.

That one is covered, we used to have a lot of elderly customers who never seem to miss a thing, especially if steradent went up by a 1p :wink:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 20:49:09 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

Dids1 wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:Who notices graphics any way !!!!

In one of my shops I was working in I put all the Point of Sale down one of the isles up side down, not one customer noticed 8)

I would have noticed, I may just not have said.

That one is covered, we used to have a lot of elderly customers who never seem to miss a thing, especially if steradent went up by a 1p :wink:

:thumbup:

That's me.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 22:37:05 GMT

brooksy wrote:
Doesn't the servicing balance it all back to the original state?

Not really referring to edge and base surface wear, Brooksy, more the permanent, but mainly minor changes that occur, but have an accumulative effect.

If you have ever seen someone checking for inherent wear, they will push the skis together, and release, looking for the strength in the spring back. Well used skis get to the stage that they are quite "flappy". Now, you could well imagine that the change in the spring of the ski (longitudinal stiffness) is not the same in each ski, nor are changes uniform along the full length of the ski.

The same is true of the ski lateral stiffness, although the changes are likely to vary between ski, they are more likely to remain uniform along the length of the ski.

When you combine the lateral and longitudinal variants, the skis have developed different overall characteristics. As I previously explained, for many people they may not notice a difference. Where differences are noticible, they are mostly observed in more extreme conditions such as ice days, where you really need torsional stiffness, or when skiing very fast in soft snow, and longitudinal variants can be felt.

Hiring skis makes little difference. Although it is true that most ski hire places put out good quality skis, they do not control who has skied on them! Many more variations! I did once take a pair of hire skis back, and gently suggested to the manager he might check the skis. He was sceptical, but I had him test them, and there was quite a difference between the two.

So there you go, if you are having a bad day........

Oh, and:

It makes sense to practice these manoeuvers on an uncomfortable side as often as you can for the very reason that when you resort to them you don't usually have a choice of direction.

Spot on, do some drills every day, just 10 minutes to keep you thinking, but that's a different subject.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 23:18:50 GMT

I'm not convinced that the asymmetrical stresses of consistent left/right use would be significant, but if that were the case... My thinking is that the greatest difference that might develop between skis consistently used as left and right, would be asymmetric variations in the torsional stiffness. Torsional stiffness is important to ski performance, especially on hard snow. Skis are twisted in various ways during a turn. A ski that is constantly twisted the same way might become less resistant to torsion in a particular pattern. This pattern of deterioration in torsional performance would be greater than would occur if the skis were swapped around often, and would be more detrimental to a ski's performance than a more symmetrical loss of resistance to torsion.

In other words, torsional performance would be better preserved by swapping left/right often.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 2 May 2012 23:29:37 GMT

Trencher - so you'd say, don't buy skis with those ridiculous matching graphics?

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Thu, 3 May 2012 00:08:59 GMT

AllyG wrote:Trencher - so you'd say, don't buy skis with those ridiculous matching graphics?

Not if you are OCD :wink:

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Fri, 4 May 2012 00:58:57 GMT

GTrencher, I agree 100% with the premise of the importance of Torsional variation. I have just never been able to establish a significant potential for cause in variation. Any variation would be very significant on ski control in hard snow. (I love that. In Europe, most people talk about ice!)

Longitudinal damage is easier to think of ~ bombing down through/alongside the trees, make a mistake, and one ski takes a head on hit. The other ski suffers no damage. That, together with the other aspects that I have previously mentioned can assimilate damage to the skis in differing ways.
You question the significance, and I guess this may depend upon personal circumstance. If you change skis every 2/3 seasons, there may be lesser variation. When you change every 5/15 years, the significance will increase. I have certainly witnessed a visual variation as well as physical.

Hmm, thinking aloud, if the skier repeatedly turns harder on a right turn than a left, it would repeatedly stress the ski ~ in the same repeat manner, both torsionally and longitudinally. Hence the stress cycles would accumulate one way.

Which leads me to conclude that the general torsional and longitudinal deteriorisation would be be better averaged by regular L/R swaps. What you said.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Fri, 4 May 2012 01:02:40 GMT

Trencher, I agree 100% with the premise of the importance of Torsional variation. I have just never been able to establish a significant potential for cause in variation. Any variation would be very significant on ski control in hard snow. (I love that. In Europe, most people talk about ice!)

Longitudinal damage is easier to think of ~ bombing down through/alongside the trees, make a mistake, and one ski takes a head on hit. The other ski suffers no damage. That, together with the other aspects that I have previously mentioned can assimilate damage to the skis in differing ways.
You question the significance, and I guess this may depend upon personal circumstance. If you change skis every 2/3 seasons, there may be lesser variation. When you change every 5/15 years, the significance will increase. I have certainly witnessed a visual variation as well as physical.

Hmm, thinking aloud, if the skier repeatedly turns harder on a right turn than a left, it would repeatedly stress the ski ~ in the same repeat manner, both torsionally and longitudinally. Hence the stress cycles would accumulate one way.

That does not consider repeat impact damage, but it does cover repeat turn effect.

Buggeroo. Who'd have thought?
Which leads me to conclude that the general torsional and longitudinal deteriorisation would be be better averaged by regular L/R swaps. What you said.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Sun, 6 May 2012 12:19:30 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:

I really think everyone is missing the point of my question. I don't care about left or right.

If you did put these skis on so that the graphics didn't line up the WOULD YOU TAKE THEM OFF AND SWAP THEM AROUND?
Would it bother you....or DOES IT BOTHER YOU.

THANK YOU.

I totally agree with you here.
As can happen, things get a little "technical" on here.

I understand the difference in wear over long periods of time by using the same ski on the same foot, but I actually dont think it is the case that when you buy a pair of skis that there is a left or right one. And thats based on having spent a lot of time looking at skis, talking about skis and trying different skis as well.
None of the skis I have ever used have L or R on them, and the only thing to prompt which foot to put them on are the graphics, although I have seen the odd and rare pair of skis with L and R marked on them. Rare though.

Which brings us back to Snapzz original question.

IMO if you have identical skis, surely it doesnt matter as youll never notice.

My skis have grahoics that flow left to right, and they have Scott on one, and Neo on the other, so logically I put Scott on the left and Neo on the right. But every so often, after a bad morning maybe, I swap them over and see if there is a difference. Again, IMO only, I do not believe there is and that it is in the skiers head (awaits techincal reason from engineering background to be posted.....)

So, whilst I don't have OCD Snapzz, looking down at my skis I do think they look correct one way and incorrect the other, and I always lay them down in the same order before putting them on as a result of the graphics only. My wifes skis are impossible to tell apart, and she skis precisely the same whichever way she uses them which simply reinforces my opinion to myself that there is literally no difference.

I don't know if, when being manufactured, they have a mould or line for left skis and right skis, so that at the end of the line the left ones have one graphic put on them etc, or if they all are made together and at the end of the line all the skis simply have whichever graphic is being printed at that time on them. My feeling is it would more likely be the latter.

Re:Ski Graphics - Left & Right.

Wed, 9 May 2012 21:16:51 GMT

You will notice that those graphics are mostly on powder/fun park skis!

In powder rare will be the skier that will wear out skis since you tend to be more with vertical motion.

I have a pair of Cochise which have this type of graphics and I do not like it but,,,,,performance forces me to keep skis!

Hope tendency does not spread to other models !

Soon we will have ski pants and jackets that "interface" with ski logos.

The new all together look .