Pole position (excuse the pun)

ise wrote:

I try to keep and eye on what's going on behind
 

To see what's on offer in the days' best yard sale

I agree though, most people now match that profile, skiing's come a long way from the package tour mentality of the 80's.  

Many UK skiers still use Tour Op packages, I would suggest most. With that, comes the package ski school class, the package hire kit etc. I would suggest that most beginner and lower intermediate improvers, don't ask why particular exercises are done, and don't really care until sometime after they have stopped taking resort ski school lessons.
Receiving different methods and styles of teaching is only part of the bigger picture when trying to explain why holidaymakers stop learning after they master the basics. I'm really not surprised that many skiers don't know how to use their poles.

carona wrote:

only thing i can add to such a technical discussion is that my left pole came in very useful when i was sliding down a mountain head first on my back unable to stop
caron

[Boy(girl?) are you right about that! I,ve checked out some of these posters' blogs etc such as Ise's...we're getting the very best of advice here on this topic.
With trepidation I suggest the pole goes-in when the next turn requires to be started. Then the body transitions (CofG) across the skis such that the skis turn on one radius but the mass of the body continues (more or less) down the slope is straighter line?

Yeah I know it's old shool but I've still got the old legs.

Seriously, Corona, your emergency use of the pole in a runnaway slide will work in some situations only.

Mountaineering technique by Greene is much more reliable. Worst case scenario on your back, heading down the slope:

1 Immediately swing legs hard into down-hill position
2 Flip over on to your torso-front
3 Spread legs and dig boot toes in hard
4 GENTLY, pushup with arms extended to raise body.
5 By now on frozen/steep slopes you are likely to be accelerating rapidly, Hold that until coming to a stop

NB The reason for gentle arms extension is that on severe slopes(or hard ice) you can catapult yourself into space as the boot toes grip or hit ridges. If that happens, you're a gonner.

Practice this on short slopes until it becomes instinctive.

All of this follows first trying to retain Ski(s) as a brake and playing the stay-in the centre of the ski game.
Chances are the skis release early anyway!

bandit wrote:

Many UK skiers still use Tour Op packages, I would suggest most. With that, comes the package ski school class, the package hire kit etc. I would suggest that most beginner and lower intermediate improvers, don't ask why particular exercises are done, and don't really care until sometime after they have stopped taking resort ski school lessons.
Receiving different methods and styles of teaching is only part of the bigger picture when trying to explain why holidaymakers stop learning after they master the basics. I'm really not surprised that many skiers don't know how to use their poles. 

I'm not so sure, think back to the 80's and early 90's people used to embark on their trips not even knowing what the weather was like at the other end, the first you'd hear was some rubbish from a the tour company rep'. Nowadays, we've the internet and people are way better informed about every aspect of their trip and it makes them much more critical consumers, or at least some of them

Maybe most people turning up this weekend at the airport and boarding their coaches are to my cynical eyes woefully naive but that proportion that are more informed is going up all the time, from around zero in the 80's and early 90's to something more significant nowadays.

Obviously the internets not a perfect mechanism to inform people and it's incredibly difficult for the average person to see what's well-intentioned but ill-informed nonsense in stuff posted on sites but that's pretty much true of much of life anyway.

The vast majority of think themselves much more informed consumers nowadys, it's largely untrue but again that proportion of genuinely informed consumers is going up, I think most instructors and ski schools (getting back to skiing) are really aware that heading down the hill and shouting "bend the knees" from time to time just won't cut it any more. The irony is that "bend the knees" is still pretty good advice for most of us

The downside is that there's been this explosion in unintelligible nonsense speak, again like much of the rest of life I suppose, I read stuff that really I ought to understand and I've not the faintest idea what they're talking about and people build entire teaching methods around it.

Your observation that this questioning of instructors and technique is something that grows with your experience must be true as well, that sounds like a natural progression though. Sadly most people abandon lessons just as soon as they can stem turn and never progress significantly, in part that's because ski schools and instructors are so woeful commercially, ski manufactures and retail outlets have always been way more successful at extracting money for new skis than ski schools have at selling tuition. People are far more willing to buy skis to make something easier than actually learn to do it properly sadly.

DaveW wrote:

only thing i can add to such a technical discussion is that my left pole came in very useful when i was sliding down a mountain head first on my back unable to stop
caron

[Boy(girl?) are you right about that! I,ve checked out some of these posters' blogs etc such as Ise's...we're getting the very best of advice here on this topic.
With trepidation I suggest the pole goes-in when the next turn requires to be started. Then the body transitions (CofG) across the skis such that the skis turn on one radius but the mass of the body continues (more or less) down the slope is straighter line?

Yeah I know it's old shool but I've still got the old legs.

Seriously, Corona, your emergency use of the pole in a runnaway slide will work in some situations only.

Mountaineering technique by Greene is much more reliable. Worst case scenario on your back, head-first and heading down the slope:

1 Immediately swing legs hard into down-hill position
2 Flip over on to your torso-front
3 Spread legs and dig boot toes in hard
4 GENTLY, pushup with arms extended to raise body.
5 By now on frozen/steep slopes you are likely to be accelerating rapidly, Hold that until coming to a stop

NB The reason for gentle arms extension is that on severe slopes(or hard ice) you can catapult yourself into space as the boot toes grip or hit ridges. If that happens, you're a gonner.

Practice this on short slopes until it becomes instinctive.

All of this follows first trying to retain Ski(s) as a brake and playing the stay-in the centre of the ski game.
Chances are the skis release early anyway!
 

(girl ) appreciate the advice, i'll use it as my mantra. unfortunately my skis didn't come off and i damaged ligaments in both knees trying to stop myself with them, that's when the pole came in useful!

on another note - admin, is it posssible to change my usename to caron please? as much as i love beer, i've been mistaken for a corona twice now!

carona wrote:

admin, is it posssible to change my usename to caron please? 

Unfortunately we already have a caron registered... I could change it to heineken if you'd prefer a more European flavour?

Minor request folks; please try not to quote the entirety of any Post you reply to - it makes the forum look a little untidy...

Admin wrote:

carona wrote:

admin, is it posssible to change my usename to caron please? 

Unfortunately we already have a caron registered... I could change it to heineken if you'd prefer a more European flavour? 

vodka and tonic? actually, how about vin chaud?

Ise, Bandit i couldnt agree more with the tour ops and commercialism aspect.
As for the pole planting a refresher lesson is on the list for my next trip.
The urge to stab and jab with the poles is a habit i alone cannot break,The desire to ski with finesse is now my priority.Besides aggressive skiing is so knackering or am i just now showing my age.


AJ Adele

Cheers for the advice guys and gals its much appreciated.

Don't let the avatar fool you. I am not convinced, but you do need them for the start in GS.