Carving and Speed

Do you think that modern carving skis have resulted in many skiers skiing at higher speeds than they used to?

This occurred to me last April while watching a particularly busy piste in Verbier.

It seems to me that as it has become easier to carve, there are many skiers carving before they have learned to balance properly on a skidding ski. The result is a lot of skiers who are not in as much control as they might be in terms of being able to stop suddenly or make a sudden change in direction when necessary.

I'm not convinced this is the case but I'm curious what others think.

Excess speed by inexperienced skiers could be curbed by resorts ceasing their overgrooming of pistes, and not remodelling (aka bulldozing) them so that all of the terrain is dumbed down.
Last month I was in Zermatt, and I was chatting to a Swiss from Bern about the pistes. I'd thought I was skiing hard packed powder, quite firm but grippy. He was complaining that the slopes were not packed down hard enough for his carvers

Still, the accessible off piste areas were nice and quiet

If I come across one more skier or boarder come to that who are skiing out of control or at speeds above their capability causing danger to all I might just forget I am a civilized person and crack a few heads. Well as long as they are smaller than me.

bandit wrote:Excess speed by inexperienced skiers could be curbed by resorts ceasing their overgrooming of pistes, and not remodelling (aka bulldozing) them so that all of the terrain is dumbed down.

I agree, but I think they 'dumb down' the pistes because they think it makes them safer. If it does result in inexperienced skiers traveling faster
then any extra safeness is lost.

Neiltoo wrote:
I agree, but I think they 'dumb down' the pistes because they think it makes them safer. If it does result in inexperienced skiers traveling faster
then any extra safeness is lost.

interesting, I'd not thought of it like that before, you must be right though. I don't think there's any one universal approach used, different places try different things and some do nothing.

In answer to your original point, some of the insurers here reckon people are going faster, I'm sure there's something on the SUVA website somewhere. I know they reckon that over 50kph can be fatal in a collision.

Neiltoo wrote:Do you think that modern carving skis have resulted in many skiers skiing at higher speeds than they used to?

This occurred to me last April while watching a particularly busy piste in Verbier.

It seems to me that as it has become easier to carve, there are many skiers carving before they have learned to balance properly on a skidding ski. The result is a lot of skiers who are not in as much control as they might be in terms of being able to stop suddenly or make a sudden change in direction when necessary.

I'm not convinced this is the case but I'm curious what others think.

I don't think it is totally down to the carving ski, in my experience there are still people who do not take enough
lessons try and keep up with more experienced friends or have just had too many beers at lunch time.
I feel frustrated especially when I have a seven year old having her ski tails skied over, some of these people have not learnt the etiquette of the slopes. I will always stop if I see a skier has fallen just to check they are ok not many people seem to do this these days, stopping in the middle of the piste,skiing slopes too steep for ability, piste awareness, common sense is always required,but it seems very rarely used.

There are several issues with carving and safety. The skier safety codes have never addressed the issue before because so few skiers were actually carving and the issues only arise when really carving.

As for speed. I said in another post that carving is skiing with the brakes off. Skidded turns are skiing with the brakes permanently on. Speed control when carving comes from making turns. It takes time to learn to control speed with turns and that's why carving should be learned on much more gentle slopes than regular skiing at the same level.

Carving a turn requires commitment. Once committed, it is very hard to change the dynamics quickly. The thrill of carving comes from carving. people who get that thrill don't like to skid or to use the oft used phrase, blend their turns. Therefor carving needs space. It is dangerous to carve on crowded slopes with large radius skis what ever the skiers ability.

Carvers who are controlling their speed make complete turns of 60 to 180 degrees. while their progress down the slope might appear slow, their speed is still verly high. Carvers can not ski board close to another caver as it is too easy to end up transitioning toward each other at the same time. It is very hard to anticipate the time it will take a carver to complete the turn (it happens so fast) and carvers are commonly hit from behind.

Contrary to some. Most skiers would like to be able to carve. For the reasons above I would always recommend a smaller radius ski. Not just because it makes carving easier, but because it makes it much safer.

Ian Wickham wrote:

I don't think it is totally down to the carving ski, in my experience there are still people who do not take enough
lessons try and keep up with more experienced friends or have just had too many beers at lunch time.

I feel slightly differently. I think that the modern shaped ski has had a large part to play in the changes in on slope behaviour.

It's now commonplace to hear folks say that they have had a weeks lessons and now they're an intermediate and can do reds and the occasional black.

Did I nod off and during the time I was asleep, all beginners turned into athletes, with superior balance and muscle control??

Way back when the "carving ski" was first carried by rental shops in the USA, I saw a poster in resort, extolling the virtues of the new shape with the USP.....

"By Pass the Bunny Slopes"

To me, it looks like learners can mostly do that these days. There is no real learner status anymore, and no time to get a skills base, before they are out there in the thick of it.

Add into the mix, the over grooming of blue and red pistes (in Europe). To me it looks like an accident waiting to happen, except it is happening. Accidents with collisions are now common and average speeds are up. I don't need to read a report, just stand still and watch.
2/3 or more of the folks I ski with, have been hit (and knocked over) by another skier at some time in the past 2/3 winters.