Carving and Speed

bandit wrote:

Trencher wrote:

That's like blaming the powder for avalanche accidents.

Trencher

Carving, being only one aspect of skiing, IMV requires less awareness than, for example, skiing an off piste pitch, which will have many variables to consider.

You must not have read the rest of my post about safe carving. Accidents whether collisions on piste or avalanche incidents off piste are generally caused by people taking chances beyond a calculated risk. Occasionally accidents happen despite the best precautions on and off piste.

Bandit, just as you take precautions off piste evaluating the conditions and your skills, so must a carver make similar evaluations with equally serious consequences. if a high speed carve goes wrong, it is possible to find your self sliding into the trees at 90 degree to the piste doing 60kph. One of the concerns with carving is that people don't see it as having additional risk and therefore requiring less awareness than other types of skiing where the risk is more apparent.

Trencher

I have not seen any mention of ski stiffness anywhere in the discussion. If one skis a softer ski at a given speed, the resultant arc will be greater than with a stiff ski, and so the turn length reduced.

In the days before special powder skis, straight skis were the only option. In deep snow, particularly in a low alpine situation, (snow tends to be heavier than high or extreme cold areas), there is no opportunity to exercise rear edge control. Pure arc turns were the only option when using standard techniques.

Of course these would not work for really steep areas, unless the skis were ultra soft.

In relation to skill levels, I cannot quite see the logic that one form of ski technique carries a greater risk than another. I would argue that the risk is related to a) the ski environment and it's condition, b) your capability to handle these, and c) the risk evaluation between a and b.

That would apply equally to steep and deep, general piste skiing, avalament, boarding, carving, racing etc.

I can't recall having any piste fall in the past 15/18 ski weeks. But in my earlier days, I had several speed hits, two into trees, one OK, one not OK, and one hit into an Austrian racer who was supposed to be leading me, but he chickened out at the edge of a jump. I hit him mid-air, it wasn't a pretty result, but I was OK.

A softer ski at a given speed will give the same radius turn as a stiffer ski if the person riding them is able to apply the appropriate force to engage the particular radius of either ski.

Dave Mac wrote:I have not seen any mention of ski stiffness anywhere in the discussion. If one skis a softer ski at a given speed, the resultant arc will be greater than with a stiff ski, and so the turn length reduced.

Well, thats possibly because my original post was about whether or not carving skis were causing intermediate skiers to ski faster than their skill level would allow.

We have got off topic somewhat.... imagine that

Off topic? Noooo, how come all the threads right now are becoming carving related////

RossF wrote:Off topic? Noooo, how come all the threads right now are becoming carving related////

Because the OP was about carving and speed (and the safety implications). It would be rather daft not to discuss carving safety issues in such a thread or I'm I missing something here.

Though I do think Dave posted half his post in the wrong thread. God, I dread getting any older

Trencher

Trencher wrote:

Though I do think Dave posted half his post in the wrong thread. God, I dread getting any older

You are correct Trencher, I joined in the latter end of the thread.

As for age, there are advantages. I have a season pass for 215 Euros.... and it seems that I get to kiss the J2ski ladies..... in a rather fatherly way, of course.

ise wrote:

Trencher wrote:What I was trying to convey before is that carving requires a greater awareness than is usualy needed for skiing.

oh, come on, you're in cloud cuckoo land now how utterly absurd, it's the easiest of things to do requiring the very least of concentration or effort which is why most accomplished skiers move on to other challenges.

Interesting. Those racers are really a bunch of amateurs doing the easy things!