Differences between parallel and carve turns?

Could someone please explain what a parallel turn is and what a carve turn is. Secondly could someone explain how to go about producing these turns in steps. Finally could someone please highlight the fundamental differences between the two. I've been skiing once before and I thought it was great fun. I went to place called St. Michael in Austria for a week. By the end I could parallel turn and tackle the red runs pretty easily. I'm going again to the same place this Febuary and I want to have a preconcieved idea of what carving is and how to go about it and also to check that i'm doing the right things when parallel turning.

Many thanks

Jake

Jake has asked a very important question.

To really answer correctly we need some background information and a little history. Please forgive me if I seem to wander.

Before 1980"s the "desired" skiing style was having legs very tight together so that the two skis were in "parallel" at all times. The "lower" level skiers would open up into a pie shaped arrangements during the turn. This was called "stem christie". The experts would keep legs together showing the lesser ones that they are the "alpha" males ( and some females). Very much like dogs that keep their tails high to show social strata!

The skier who is known world wide as the model of this "parallel" technique is called Stein Erickson. Watch him just 10 seconds skiing and you will understand what parallel skiing is all about. Elegant, flowing with legs at all times "glued" together. Many tears ago for skiers wishing to be level 3 ski instructors they had to ski down terrain with varied inclinations with a red handkerchief stuck between their knees. Open just once, you failed the examination since the red handkerchief would fall to snow!. That is parallel skiing at its best. Few skiers, except some "old instructors" ski this way now!

Why?

Equipment has evolved resulting in a more dynamic skiing style. Boots have a softer flex, skis are more "shaped" for effective ski performance.
Due to the major changes in equipment skiing has really become easier. Really! But changes , any changes for some is difficult ,,,,,,initially!

Carving means that you use the ski effectively. The skier carves the ski run very much like you using a knife, from one edge (of one ski) to the other edge ( of the other ski). In short, in a carving ski technique you transfer all pressure from one edge, right away to the other edge. There is no flat stage where you stay flat on the ski bases. It is a "on the edge" skiing style which is very effective , very flowing, very sharp with no lateral tail movement!

You will also note that skis are apart and NOT parallel while skiing. yes the elegance is gone!!!!!

Allow me an analogy. Next time you watch, "Scent of a women" look carefully at the Tango scene.There is a ritualized movement which is sensuous, with elegant movements.The posturing is most important not more effective movement! That is parallel skiing. The look is most important !

Take another dancing scene but very modern. The "look" becomes secondary to the "difficulty" of the movement.

In short "parallel skiing" is gone!
Carving skiing is IN!!!

This is not just a "vogue" or passing fad! New skis require you to ski this way. It is easier. It is more fun, once you accept the change and take the time to learn it.

Look at it this way, some years ago the skiing world was "rejecting" steel edges as "cheaters"! Poles were rejected since one pole was enough. Plastic boots were "cheap' and of course wool was much better than polar flleece!

Time to change. The term and concept parallel skiing should be allowed to rest. I must confess however that when I do ski with Stein Erickson at Deer Valley I digress to my old sinful ways and ski like him! Elegance still has its value, not efficient this glued legs technique called "parallele" but elegant!

I hope this has help you Jake!

Brilliant, thanks for taking the time to post .

I don't think elegance need be completely lost. The problem is that at the moment, the charge into the new rechnique has been led by the racers. Whenever I see instructors taking a carving clinic, it is normally a racer type doing the teaching.

The current racing model of the skis wide apart is not neccersary for free skiing. In a good carved turn, the legs are parallel and may be touching, though the skis are further apart. I don't like the extreme carving style that brings the inside ski up under the body. To me this looks no better than an A frame turn, in that it's almost impossible to fall. It is possible to carve quite extremely without doing that.

I think a style of carving will develope, that will be graceful.

One the greatest aspects of the carving revolution is the condition of the runs. Until recently, if the snow was soft at our local hill, you had an hour or two at most befor the slope was mini moguled out and impossible to carve on. That only happens on holiday weekends now, when the old schoolers come out.

Trencher

Jake wrote:

Could someone please explain what a parallel turn is and what a carve turn is.

Many thanks

Jake 

A concise answer would be that for parrallel turns, turning is initiated by the skier pivotting their legs at the hip joint to create steering of the skis. Carving is where the skis are 'cut' into the snow by the skier angulating and the skis following the path of the skis sidecut. As a result parralel skiing enables faster shorter radius turns suitable for steep terrain where speed control is important, carving is great fun on well groomed blue pistes where long sweeping turns at high speed are possible.

As an addition to the first reply above, modern parrallel technique is that the skier should adopt a wider stance (i.e. skis not close together) since this gives a more stable base and facilitates anugulation at the knee joints as well as the hips giving much better edge control. It should be noted that even though the skis aren't together they are still parrallel.

Jake wrote:

Could someone please explain what a parallel turn is and what a carve turn is.

Many thanks

Jake 

A concise answer would be that for parrallel turns, turning is initiated by the skier pivotting their legs at the hip joint to create steering of the skis. Carving is where the skis are 'cut' into the snow by the skier angulating and the skis following the path of the skis sidecut. As a result parralel skiing enables faster shorter radius turns suitable for steep terrain where speed control is important, carving is great fun on well groomed blue pistes where long sweeping turns at high speed are possible.

As an addition to the first reply above, modern parrallel technique is that the skier should adopt a wider stance (i.e. skis not close together) since this gives a more stable base and facilitates anugulation at the knee joints as well as the hips giving much better edge control. It should be noted that even though the skis aren't together they are still parrallel.

There is some good illustrative video in the Ski Technique section - see Skiing Carved Turns.

Powderhound

Another thing to note is that a Pure carved turn can not be any shorter than the turn radius designed into the ski. A pure carve is achieved when the ski is set on its edge, and pressure at the center of the ski causes it to decamber,or bend such that the tip and tail of the ski are "higher" than the middle. This creates a track in the snow that the ski will follow, and very little snow will spray. Racers do this all the time; you can tell when they're losing speed because more snow flies around as the ski skids sideways. You will note that a modern slalom ski has a radically short turn radius, and a correspondingly high sidecut. Fat powder skis have much less sidecut, as the narrow waist would sink, and the much wider tips would dive into the soft snow. Really fun powder skis have reverse sidecut and reverse camber, but that's another topic entirely!

Thus, I would have to beg to differ slightly with pavelski. It is not possible to "carve" 98mm waist fat skis in a slalom turn the same way as if one were using slalom skis. I would not want to try to carve a turn through some trees! Skidding, in a controlled manner, is a very important skill. You have to be able to steer the ski, while it's edged. But, in so doing, you are losing the "pure carve".

Last, carving is a form of parallel skiing. Parallel simply means both skis are pointed the same direction. That old hokey knees-together crap that we did up to the mid 80s ... is also parallel. It's just not appropriate to today's equipment, and physically impossible with some of today's skis.

ski53 wrote:

Another thing to note is that a Pure carved turn can not be any shorter than the turn radius designed into the ski.is. 

I would put it this way. The radius of a carved turn is the product of the skis sidecut radius and the degree to which the ski is inclinated. The turn shape may also be altered by pressure applied to the ski.

Welcome to the forum ski53.


Trencher

This vid shows an example of an older style of skiing ie not carving.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4WJS9v8Amb4

82ross wrote:

This vid shows an example of an older style of skiing ie not carving.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4WJS9v8Amb4 

I'd like to point out that there is a fair bit wrong with the technique demonstrated in this clip so should not be used as a 'how to ski parralel' demo.

Main problem is that this guy is using his upper body to chuck himself from side to side, and his legs are not pivotting separately from his hips. I'd suggest that the reason he's having to do this is because he's remaining on his edges for too long when he needs to be flattening them out at end of each turn. This is fairly clearly demonstrated when you can see his uphill (or inside) ski being independently picked up to initiate the subsequent turn, the first turn he makes after passing the camera gives the most obvious demo of this fault.

Whilst carving is a new(ish)style of skiing facilitated by shaped skis, parrallel skiing is certainly not an outdated style (although this business of skiing with narrow stance is and looks very mincey).

Excellent observations and comments!

Notice also how he "opens up" near end of turn! That is one of my many faults while I ski! I have to think to hold that edge to the very end of turn!

Just a comment about having fun while skiing!

Some skiers are so concerned about technique that they never enjoy just skiing! Have fun!

I always take one hour per day to focus on one aspect of my "weak points"! The rest of time,,,I just have fun!

Yes it is great to have effective technique, but you ski to have fun! Let yourselves go!

It reminds me about listening to some biometric physiologist who were watching people walk! No one walked "correctly" according to them!